pedr0 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Hello. I am brazilian. I've got a GPA of 3.5 in my Economics B.S. at my local university. It's a good university, but calculus disciplines were pretty weak. I wanted to do an "academic upgrade" and applied to a master's in the University of São Paulo's (that's the most important university in Brazil) Agricultural Economics Department. I struggled very much with quantitative disciplines, and got lots of "C" grades. The university does not state how much a C is worth, but it's the lowest grade one can have without failing. I would guess it's a 5(of 10), because that's the lowest an undergrad can get without failing. Well, they say a master's at a good school in Brazil is harder than a master's in U.S. but easier than a PHD. I want to do a PHD in the U.S., but I'll work to improve my math abilities before I can do that. I intend to complete a Real Analysis course in a Math department. My question: Is doing a Real Analysis course enough to compensate for my bad grades in my master's in an Admission selection in the U.S.? Or is it advisable just to pretend I havenn't done this master's (which would be sad because that's the most valuable thing I have got in my curriculum)? P.S.: I don't intend to try TOP30 schools. The hardest I consider aplying to are TOP 50 schools (and even these I don't know if it's worth trying with my grades), like Cornell. The easiest I want to try is CUNY. P.S. 2: I think I may have some papers published by the time of selection. I don't know if it helps much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startz Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Many universities REQUIRE you to tell them everywhere you have attended. If you don't and you get found out, you are likely to be dismissed from the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayes Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Most masters programs in the USA are applied in nature and many who attend US masters do not apply for Econ PhD. So your competition will be those who attended European masters programs(most reputable programs in EU use PhD level textbooks). At this point doing well in Real Analysis is not going to send a strong signal because you have earned subpar grades in Graduate Economics courses. I am not sure if you can compensate this other than attending a rigorous program in Europe(which might be hard to get into with a C average) or taking PhD level classes at your current institution(which you definitely should take Real Analysis I-II, Linear Algebra beforehand). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedr0 Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 Thanks for your answers. Now I see. That's because master's in U.S. have a different purpose. I saw that some of the Master's in U.S. say that they're a pathway to a phd. Do you think that I could pass in one of these Master's in the U.S (which say that it's a way of preparing to phd) already having done it with bad grades in Brazil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startz Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Thanks for your answers. Now I see. That's because master's in U.S. have a different purpose. I saw that some of the Master's in U.S. say that they're a pathway to a phd. Do you think that I could pass in one of these Master's in the U.S (which say that it's a way of preparing to phd) already having done it with bad grades in Brazil? Yes. But in choosing a program, be sure to look at placements. Not all U.S. masters programs are good preparations for a PhD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedr0 Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 I don't know if I should create another post for that. I hope you read. I have been asking for advice from other brazilians that got PhDs in the US (from competitive and not so competitive schools). Basically, what I got from them is that it would be more suitable if I tried not so competitive PhDs, in place of getting a Master's again. I understand that lots of programs simply have the pre-requisite of graduate GPAs being higher than 3.0 (I think my GPA would be "B-", what is probably bellow 3.0), but actually I found some PhDs that do not require minimum graduate GPA, and are good at my field (applied time series econometrics), like Fordham University (the easiest I am thinking about right now) and California- Riverside (the hardest). Considering I come from a good graduate program in my country (even though I got low GPA in it), and I can get good GRE scores and recommendation letters, how likely I am to get accepted in these programs? Do you know another program that is good in time series econometrics that is not as competitive as the top 100 ones, in which I could try the admission process with my profile? P.S.: Should I create another post, since the title just doesn't suit the discussion anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbones Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 I don't know if I should create another post for that. I hope you read. I have been asking for advice from other brazilians that got PhDs in the US (from competitive and not so competitive schools). Basically, what I got from them is that it would be more suitable if I tried not so competitive PhDs, in place of getting a Master's again. I understand that lots of programs simply have the pre-requisite of graduate GPAs being higher than 3.0 (I think my GPA would be "B-", what is probably bellow 3.0), but actually I found some PhDs that do not require minimum graduate GPA, and are good at my field (applied time series econometrics), like Fordham University (the easiest I am thinking about right now) and California- Riverside (the hardest). Considering I come from a good graduate program in my country (even though I got low GPA in it), and I can get good GRE scores and recommendation letters, how likely I am to get accepted in these programs? Do you know another program that is good in time series econometrics that is not as competitive as the top 100 ones, in which I could try the admission process with my profile? P.S.: Should I create another post, since the title just doesn't suit the discussion anymore? What kind of GRE scores are you targeting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedr0 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 What kind of GRE scores are you targeting? Targeting 85 percentile in the quantitative part at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahududu Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Even Fordham might be hard since last time I checked their acceptance rate is 11%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutonic Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 You should aim for at least a 165 for the Quantitative section in the GRE to boost your chances of getting in. I can't speak to your chances of getting into these programmes but just because a programme is low ranked, doesn't mean that the applicants are necessarily subpar. They could simply be coming in with stellar grades from unknown undergrads, have inadequate letters or some other deficiencies in their profile. Given that you have multiple Cs in your graduate courses, the better course of action would be to decide if a PhD is something that you should pursue. As things currently stand, there's no guarantee that you can even survive the first year qualifiers. As for where to apply, the best is to approach your letter writers, and inform them of your complete profile (all your grades & research experience so far), and get their opinion on where you ought to apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayes Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 I highly agree with tutonic. Also, why would your professors would write you good letters if you were an inch away from failing? These are all important questions you need to ask yourself. A bad/mediocre letter will automatically get you filtered out. It is better to confront your professors now so you can get a reality check and develop your plan accordingly (rather than waiting and assuming everything will work out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbones Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 You might look into online business programs, since those tend to have much less stringent admissions requirements, and online programs in general are much less selective than their brick and mortar counterparts... then you can work and get an online degree at the same time if that's something that interests you. And you can still have a US degree. Business programs are not that far apart from econometrics, you might be able to register in an econometrics course depending on how flexible the programs are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbones Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 This looks really good for a brick and mortar econ PhD program: Economics, Ph.D. | Middle Tennessee State University. Only need 3.0 on the undergrad degree and no specification on additional degrees. The GRE needs a combined score of 302 which is like 151 on average for math and verbal, which is like 51st and 41st percentiles... it requires you to take 4 econometrics courses to graduate from their program, which sounds great for you... what do you think about this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbones Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Here's another great one for you (if you happened to have gotten a 3.0 average for the last 60 semester credits!): https://www.usu.edu/degrees/index.cfm?id=8. They only require a 40th percentile on the GRE and one thing to know about this program is that they only take PhD candidates on odd numbered years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbones Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 This one doesn't specialize in econometrics but you may still find it interesting to consider: Doctor of philosophy in economics admissions - Economics - Wayne State University. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbones Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 This is the last one I found, but looks kind of neat: Doctor of Philosophy in Applied Economics | Economics | Western Michigan University. I think there is still a good deal of hope that you can have to pursue an econ PhD in the US! A lot of programs are just looking for people with the drive and commitment and vision to get a PhD in econ and do something productive with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedr0 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 Thanks everyone for the advice. That's what I was looking for. Some of these programs dogbones showed me are quite interesting (I'll look better at them). I am considering applying to one of these PhDs and to some master's programs too. As the brazilians I talked to said, that's kind of weird trying to pursue master's again. Do you have some kind of advice about that? Should I make it clear that I am applying to a master's because of my grades, and I want to get good grades this time. I have a friend that started The same master's as me but left to go to Urbana-Champaign master's. For what he told me, i am confident I could get good grades if I pursued master's again. I Just don't know how having a good master's with bad grades would affect me in another master's Admission process. Actually I found out about one professor in my program here that has repeated master's in US before getting PhD. He ended with 3 master's (1 in Brazil and 2 in the US) and a PhD. I don't know much about his grades because I am not familiar with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutonic Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Thanks everyone for the advice. That's what I was looking for. Some of these programs dogbones showed me are quite interesting (I'll look better at them). I am considering applying to one of these PhDs and to some master's programs too. As the brazilians I talked to said, that's kind of weird trying to pursue master's again. Do you have some kind of advice about that? Should I make it clear that I am applying to a master's because of my grades, and I want to get good grades this time. I have a friend that started The same master's as me but left to go to Urbana-Champaign master's. For what he told me, i am confident I could get good grades if I pursued master's again. I Just don't know how having a good master's with bad grades would affect me in another master's Admission process. Actually I found out about one professor in my program here that has repeated master's in US before getting PhD. He ended with 3 master's (1 in Brazil and 2 in the US) and a PhD. I don't know much about his grades because I am not familiar with him. Speak to your letter writers about what they think should be your next steps (whether to pursue another masters, try for a PhD, and if so, where to apply), not fellow students/seniors. You should post your full profile using the standard format so all relevant information gets consolidated in one single post. That being said, with your grades as is, it's unlikely that you'll gain entry into a competitive, rigorous masters programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahududu Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Thanks everyone for the advice. That's what I was looking for. Some of these programs dogbones showed me are quite interesting (I'll look better at them). I am considering applying to one of these PhDs and to some master's programs too. As the brazilians I talked to said, that's kind of weird trying to pursue master's again. Do you have some kind of advice about that? Should I make it clear that I am applying to a master's because of my grades, and I want to get good grades this time. I have a friend that started The same master's as me but left to go to Urbana-Champaign master's. For what he told me, i am confident I could get good grades if I pursued master's again. I Just don't know how having a good master's with bad grades would affect me in another master's Admission process. Actually I found out about one professor in my program here that has repeated master's in US before getting PhD. He ended with 3 master's (1 in Brazil and 2 in the US) and a PhD. I don't know much about his grades because I am not familiar with him. The only reason why they think you're being weird about doing second master's is because you've not been honest with them fully. If you told them about your subpar grades in Grad level courses, I think they would be more understanding. But at the end of the day it really doesn't matter what they think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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