Should I transfer?

[hscjoe]

Hello All,

 

I hope this post could interest some of you.

 

I would like to get some insight into the matter of transferring undergrad institution.

 

To briefly provide my background:

 

My goal: get into the best possible Ph.D. in economics program (>=T30)

 

My current institution and My current plan: get BS in Math/Stat + Econ minor (Purdue, Math/Stat>T30, Econ T40ish), and get MS in Stat in the same institution (all completed in 3 years from now).

 

If I transfer: (if I get in) Brown, Cornell, Umichigan, Claremont McKenna (T10 LAC) ECON or Math/Stat or both (I only can apply to these institutions because I will be transferring in Spring 2022)

 

If I transfer, I plan to just complete my BS and apply to ECON PHD programs, and the cost would be roughly +$100,000 from my original plan (completion estimated time would be 2.5 years from now - half year decrease from my original plan).

 

So, I would like to ask you all if I should transfer (of course, given that I get in) to those institutions or not. If I do transfer, I would be able to take more courses as undergrad since I will have completed quite a lot of math/econ courses at Purdue. I question is focused on "would transferring worth it (better chance in getting into better program & given the cost)?" I "can" afford the additional cost, but it would be quite a burden for my parents of course.

 

Please provide me with some insight into this matter. I would appreciate any comments on this. I hope I could be able to make the decision based on your comments. Thank you.

 

 

++ Just to add, I would also like to know some thoughts on Duke MAE.

 

So, if I were to pursue Duke MAE after graduating Purdue (BS Math/Stat + Econ Minor), it would take 3 years from now to complete it, and it would be roughly +$150,000 from the original plan. Does anyone think this might be the best option among the three (stay at Purdue and do MS Stat OR Transfer (no MS) OR Purdue+Duke MAE)?

 

I know I kinda rambled on, but please help me out. Thank you, all.

Edited May 1, 2021 by hscjoe

[rtj]

I personally, in your situation, would not transfer. I have had several comparable decisions to you, and so far, I've chosen the cheaper options. Purdue is a pretty strong STEM university (in applied mathematics, stats, and economics), and $100,000-150,000 is A LOT of money. But only you can decide whether that much debt is worth the potential benefits from transferring.

 

If I were you, I'd focus on doing very well at Purdue. Get excellent grades in your math and stats courses. Try to work as an Economics RA. If you can handle it, take some grad coursework or reading courses (in Econ, or perhaps Math/Stats if you have interests in theory/metrics). If need be, a top post-doc or foreign MAs are possible later. Just remember that while signaling is important, your education is what you make of it - especially at the undergrad level. A quality R1 institution like Purdue can provide you with many great opportunities.

[QuanJuDe]

It might be too late to get into Brown or Cornell. You would not have the same connection as to find RA work or strong letter. Do your best at Purdue, and get all the As, RA work and strong letters you can get. Try to do pre-doc if you can and want. If not, let's just say that a high GPA at Purdue would play a lot better than the same GPA in other schools you mentioned. Good luck.

[econstudentcorp]

Absolutely not! I got into a t15 from a strong applied math, t100 econ school. I have a corporate job right now, did it for 3 months, decided I hated it and went for the PhD. I have no debt and I am very happy about that.

[econliker]

Very bad idea to transfer in this situation. Purdue will set you up in a great place

[hscjoe]

It might be too late to get into Brown or Cornell. You would not have the same connection as to find RA work or strong letter. Do your best at Purdue, and get all the As, RA work and strong letters you can get. Try to do pre-doc if you can and want. If not, let's just say that a high GPA at Purdue would play a lot better than the same GPA in other schools you mentioned. Good luck.

 

Thank you for your reply! I just want to ask some follow-up questions if I may.

 

1. What do you mean by "too late"? Yes, some schools do not accept juniors or seniors as a transfer student, but Brown and Cornell do not seem to care about this too much. Or, do you mean "too late" as in "waste of time and money"? Also, why would I not have the same connection with professors? Is it not likely for me to gain good relationships with professors if I join as a transfer student?

 

2. Why do you think I would be better off getting straight A's than transferring and getting straight A's?

 

3. Yeah I would prefer doing a pre-doc, but the odds don't seem to be with me, so I am thinking of a master's in statistics at Purdue. Do you think this would be better for me than transferring? How about the plan in general-do you think this would help me?

[hscjoe]

Thank you so much, @rtj! I agree with you on the financial matter. Yes, I will be joining labs and am doing research as well as acing the courses. Actually, this was why I thought maybe I can do well in better schools, and further increase my chances of getting into prestigious programs.

[hscjoe]

Absolutely not! I got into a t15 from a strong applied math, t100 econ school. I have a corporate job right now, did it for 3 months, decided I hated it and went for the PhD. I have no debt and I am very happy about that.

 

Thank you! What do you think about doing a masters?

[hscjoe]

Thank you so much for an encouraging comment, @econliker. Yes, I do prefer to stay since I am already well settled, but I wanted to increase my chances by doing what I can at the moment.

[hscjoe]

Overall, I would like to also focus on doing a master's.

 

What do you guys think about doing a master's in stat? Or should I do MAE at Duke? Or not at all?

 

Not at all option is not the best one for me since it seems harder for me to get research jobs outside of school, and I think it is better to do Purdue's research jobs with a "student" status. Maybe it is cuz I am an international.

 

BTW, I am an international. This might make a lot of difference in all of your opinions.

[rtj]

Do you want to do hardcore research in metrics? Then an MS in Stats may make sense. (But it is still unnecessary, and often possible during your PhD, if you are so inclined.) It can also make sense if you have deficiencies in rigorous, quantitative coursework (you don’t have any, you have some bad grades, etc.) But you are majoring in Math and Stats. The bottom line is that an MS in Stats won’t help you meet economics professors.

 

The Duke MAE is very expensive. Top students seem to place decently.

 

Do you have relationships with economics faculty at Purdue? Purdue is a strong university. To get into an Economics PhD, you generally need to build relationships with economics professors. The work it will take to transfer to a different school will be stressful and expensive. It will take away from your focus on building relationships with professors, possible RA opportunities, and doing well in your courses.

 

If I were you, I’d focus on maximizing your opportunities at Purdue.

[QuanJuDe]

Thank you for your reply! I just want to ask some follow-up questions if I may.

 

1. What do you mean by "too late"? Yes, some schools do not accept juniors or seniors as a transfer student, but Brown and Cornell do not seem to care about this too much. Or, do you mean "too late" as in "waste of time and money"? Also, why would I not have the same connection with professors? Is it not likely for me to gain good relationships with professors if I join as a transfer student?

 

2. Why do you think I would be better off getting straight A's than transferring and getting straight A's?

 

3. Yeah I would prefer doing a pre-doc, but the odds don't seem to be with me, so I am thinking of a master's in statistics at Purdue. Do you think this would be better for me than transferring? How about the plan in general-do you think this would help me?

 

Hey, sorry I just saw this.

1) When I say too late, I meant that if you transfer to there, I think you'd need to start as a junior/3rd year student, in which you should already taken enough courses at Purdue but you may need to start over your intermediate courses and metrics. This will put you in disadvantage when you ask to do research work with faculty, since your peer at the new school has 2 more years to build the connection, show off their intellectuals. I am not saying that it is impossible to do, and if you have good connections at Purdue, it is not hard to ask Purdue faculty to endorse you, but it is generally harder, and you are paying more.

 

2) Since you are considering transfer, I believe that you have good grades, since transfer cares a lot about gpa and believe or not, SAT. I am not saying that it would be better off getting straight As at Purdue instead of Brown or Cornell. What I'm saying is that you want to continue to get straight As at Purdue, and straight As at Purdue may worth more than straight As at Brown/Cornell, given GPA inflations at private schools and class size.

 

3) As a predoc myself I'm def biased, but seeing my coworkers' application results this and previous years, I'd say pre-doc still has a significant advantage against other applicants. This edge may be gone in a few years, but we will see. It's not too hard to find pre-doc work. You just need to know you need to apply to predocs at the right time(late Sept/early October, then throughout the year). Also I'm international as well. Some pre-doc programs will allow you to use OPT, or give you J-1 or even H1B.

Not sure how much a MS in Stats will help, so I can't comment on that.

 

And for MAE stuff, I have friends who did it and goes to Duke now, and friends who are RAs at other places now. Performing really well in a good school's MA program will def help you get in that school, but the downside is the competition and potential bombing your GPA given almost everyone in the cohort will want to fight the spots.

 

Also everything above I believe is only valid if you are certain that you want to do Econ PhD. If you are not too sure, transfer may actually be a better choice, but that's out of my league to give you advice on that. Good luck with whatever you choose!

[econstudentcorp]

Thank you! What do you think about doing a masters?

Sorry I didnt see this. I didn't plan on a masters at all unless I didn't get into any programs. I was okay with going to a top 40 program. I really hated the idea of taking out over 100k in debt for school/living expenses. My admissions director did say a reason he chose me was for my corporate experience, though, so I am unsure if I could have pulled this off straight from undergrad.