dyiwang

Yeah, I think you have a shot, but seems like you are missing real analysis, or is that called something else in your course load?

I would suggest that you submit your research topics via a CV or a writing sample. The SOP is more about showing that, from a personal level, you are well aware what getting a PhD entails, have realistic expectations about what you plan to do with your PhD, and have seriously thought about the prospect of being a researcher as a career path and come to the conclusion that you want this. There will be other places in your application for you to talk about your research and your findings. So there is no need to duplicate the information in your SOP. Good luck.

Admission people evaluate a candidate along two key dimensions in hope to identify high-quality future researchers in the field: learning capability and research potential. The first dimension is easy, as past academic performance is typically a strong predictor of future learning success. After all, no program wants to accept candidates and later find out that the candidates just can't master the tool kit and pass the comp. The second dimension is less observable, hence the word choice "potential." And some programs ask for optional writing samples to help them evaluate this. In light of this, I would say rank your writing sample materials in the following order: 1. In the rare case that you already have publications in a respectful journal in the field, then this is a no brainer. But I admit that very few people have this choice pre-PhD. 2. If you have a thesis or a working paper that is ready to be submitted to a journal, even not to a top or top field, then still it is a good choice. As it shows that you at least have had exposure to the research process and can be productive. 3. A research proposal that describes a topic that might eventually evolve into a paper later into your PhD career, and maybe with luck a chapter in your dissertation. 4. If you don't have any of the above, and writing sample is optional, then I would consider not submitting one. Because at this point what you are left with is maybe a class essay, or a term paper, but none of these would be too revealing of your potential of a researcher. Best of luck.

I am not sure if that's the best approach for an effective SOP, talking about a paper I mean.

Replying to a post over 15 years later, I did meet THE ONE during my PhD! So all worked out great! 😁

Here is a thought. Given that you were accepted to other programs, why not e-mail these program directors, explain your situation, and politely ask if you can get a spot next year? They might come back and ask whether you are willing to commit to come if you were given a spot, and you can answer honestly. Might save you a lot of trouble. Good luck!

Hi All, I used this forum a lot when I applied for my PhD, and eventually got my PhD in Econ from Stanford. While at Stanford, for a couple of years I came back to answer questions for perspective students contemplating Stanford, but that was over a decade ago. Then life got busy. Now I am an industry economist in the financial industry by day, and still publish academically during my spare time (at a frequency of two or three papers per year), and of course I have a family and good life. One of my advisers once told me that to a serious economist, there are two hard currencies in this profession, money and publications. So I have been operating at the efficient frontier of those two currencies subject to my ability constraint 🙂 . Happy to take any questions from those who are curious about my life as an economist after graduating. I remember my PhD experience fondly and am happy to answer questions about my experience as well for those who are interested, but things might have changed. Good luck to all and hope all of you become successful economists.

Wow. Thank you for keeping this forum going and providing this public service for 20 years. I remember that this forum used to be affiliated with Test magic or something like that, which if I recall correctly provided for profit test prep and application advice. So I always thought that this forum was free because it was affiliated with a for-profit business.

Oh, and here is my LinkedIn profile just in case. https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-wang-42b85932 I am not a full time academic but still publishes academically during my spare time at a rate of a couple of publications per year.

Hi Erin, I am an economist and would like to volunteer. I have been using this forum since I was applying for my Phd back in 2005. The downside is that I am also quite busy so the amount of time I can volunteer will likely be limited and perhaps irregular. Feel free to email me at dyiwang@uchicago.edu

Truth telling here is the dominant strategy in my opinion. If the school deems you "too good for them" and rejects you, which you have no way of verify anyway, then that school is not the right fit. PhD application is a mutual selection process, and any school who has a problem with the truth has bigger issues.

I know for a fact that one indeed can, but it's tough. A few years ago I mentored someone through his application process. He had to do a gap year because he didn't do real analysis during his undergraduate education. He had no RA experience. Graduated from Penn State undergrad, which is not a top 30 program in econ I don't think. Decent LORs from his college professors. No thesis work. To be honest I thought top 30 was a long shot for him at the time, but I told him that it's worth a try. And he got into UVA, which I think is arguably top 30, although there are 40 schools that think they are top 30 🙂 So good luck!

I suggest that you take the Vanderbilt offer. Upon reviewing your math background, you have enough math courses to give you a legitimate shot as a PhD applicant, so any additional math courses that you might take as a math major would yield relatively low marginal value in your application. Instead, your eventual PhD application can benefit a lot more with some RA experience, which you mentioned in your post that you are likely to get (or at least more likely to get than extending your undergrad by a year) if I were to take what you said at face value. And I have no reason not to. So I think this is an easy call based on the information you have provided. Of course, if you were to tell me that instead of attending a typical undergrad (which I assume you are), you are actually at one of the top 10 US universities for undergrad education (based on say US News Ranking if you will), then yeah, get that math major.

Thanks for sharing. I agree that it is definitely uncommon for applicants to have publications in top journals and don't mean to imply otherwise. That said, it is not uncommon for RAs at the IMF to co-author on working papers in the IMF Working Paper Series. Granted, the quality variance of these working papers can be surprisingly high if one had the chance to read through some of them, but some of them (I would say around 10% to be conservative) would deserve at least some attention from mid-tier journals (and that is indeed "decent" if a RA happens to be a co-author on a paper of such quality, but clearly far from being tenured at a respectful program). But even such mediocrity from the perspective of those already with a PhD would be tremendously value-adding for someone who is about to prepare for one's PhD application. I also mentioned the RAP explicitly in my initial response, which is a program specifically targeting top-quality undergrad candidates (as opposed to typical RA positions at the IMF which generally require a MA degree in a relevant field). For those undergrads who are selected to the RAP (Research Analyst Program), the understanding is that this program would be a stepping stone to something else. The number selected is quite limited. Participants of the RAP often get the chance to work with senior ranking people who can be quite influential in academia. I know all of this as a former IMF economist who know people in the RAP. Hence, at least from my humble perspective, I am indeed giving very reasonable advice on how to compare RA/predoc work if the primary goal is to enhance one's competitiveness in the PhD application process. Best of luck and all the best.

If you are admitted to the RAP and don't have better RA options, then the IMF opportunity is a decent choice. It's a full time job, but hours are friendly. What you makes out of it can be path dependent. If you happen to impress the chief economist of the IMF and receive a strong LOR, then I would say you just punched your ticket to a top 10 PhD program. If you put in some extra work and get a couple of decent working papers under your belt during your time there, and by decent I mean R&R at decent journals, then you would be an impressive candidate even without that LOR from the chief economist. If you just allow the friendly hours to lure you into doing the work and not much more, then it wouldn't help your PhD ambition too much, nor will it help your bank account that much either.

Okay. Not here to argue with anyone, but the pointers below should be addressed in order to have at least a functional PS/SOP for your econ PhD application in my humble opinion. If you disagree, it's all good. Hopefully people will find it useful. Point 1: State clearly that you are interested in pursuing a PhD in Econ and what you envision yourself doing with your Econ PhD (becoming a researcher should be the main goal). Point 2: Elaborate why you are prepared from an academic point view in terms of classes. No need to list all of your classes, but stress that you have the proper math training. Point 3: Talk about any research experience. Here, please do not go into too much detail on exactly what you did, but instead focus on the fact that you know what research is like, but also know that you still have a long way to go until you can conduct independent research. And a PhD will help you become a better researcher. Point 4: Any other preparations you have done to prepare yourself and your field interest. Explain why. Point 5: Why the school you are applying to is a good fit and if applicable, what you bring to the table. Why are you different from any other applicant. Conclude with the fact you would like to become a qualified researcher.

So after over a decade, I am back to this forum. Very surprised that my profile still remains and my password works. I initially found this place and joined back in 2005 (yes you read that right), when I was a junior investment banker, and a year later I started the life changing adventure of getting my Econ PhD. For what it's worth, I want to share the courses I took as an undergrad and also rank (with the advantage of hindsight) how helpful each course was to my PhD pursuit. Perhaps this would help some with their course selection. In a separate and tangentially related note, the PhD has given me what I wanted out of it and more, but if you managed to read through a lot of my old posts, you would have guessed correctly that what I wanted out of my PhD was quite different from the norm in the first place, but that's a different conversation. I still publish academically for fun, but am not a full time academic. Good luck to all and good to be back. So below are the courses I have taken as an undergrad, and the numbers next to the course names are my assessment of how useful they were for PhD courses. 5-Must have 4-Good to have 3-If the instructor is influential enough in the field 2-Not that helpful 1-Not useful but had to take it for graduation First year fall quarter: Elements of Econ Analysis 1 (intermediate micro I), 4 Philosophical perspectives 1, 1 Calculus-3, 4 Stat Meth and Applications, 5 First year winter quarter: Elements of Econ Analysis 2 (intermediate micro II), 4 Elements of Econ Analysis 3 (intermediate macro I), 4 Philosophical Perspectives 2, 1 Analysis in Real Numbers 1, 5 First year spring quarter: Elements of Econ Analysis 4 (intermediate macro II), 4 Econometrics A, 5 Philosophical Perspectives 3, 1 Analysis in Real Numbers 2, 5 Second year fall quarter: Introductory game theory, 3 Analysis on real numbers 3, 5 Basic Algebra 1 (honors), 2 Power, Identity, Resistance 1, 1 Second year winter quarter: Colonization/servitude/slavery, 1 International Trade/Economic Growth, 3 Basic Algebra 2 (honors), 2 Power, Identity, Resistance 1, 1 Second year spring quarter: Introduction to Finance, 3 Basic Complex Variables, 2 Intro to math probability, 5 Power, identity, resistance 3, 1 Third year fall quarter: Art of China, 1 Theory of Income (PhD level macro), 3 America in Western Civ 1, 1 Third year winter quarter: America in Western Civ 2, 1 Point Set Topology, 2 Ordinary Differential Equations, 4

Hi, I would suggest that you take the following math/stat courses to enhance your Econ Phd application, and if you still have additional elective space, then of course feel free take other courses of interest. Real analysis (one academic year's worth) Probability theory Linear algebra (this will come in handy for your econometric sequence during your first year of your PhD) Math courses that weren't too helpful in hindsight for my PhD coursework: Topology, basic algebra (group theory, ring theory stuff). Good luck!

Well, technically a lot of the content doesn't only apply to Chinese applicants. I haven't been back to this place in ages. If you look at my older posts, you will know that I was an applicant many years ago just like many of you. And yes, I am also Chinese, although I grew up in the States. Some good news first: Econ PhD is an awesome experience. The job prospect is great too (and no, I am not being sarcastic). I have graduated for a couple of years, and life has treated me very nicely. Now, if you are a Chinese applicant, in addition to use this forum, you might be able to benefit from a couple of other Chinese forums as well (gter for instance, and no, I am not being paid to advertise them). Anyway, if you think you have finished your PS, please go through the list below to make sure you have checked off the following five points. The first four applies to all applicants, the final point is more for Chinese applicants. Point 1: State clearly that you are interested in pursuing a PhD in Econ and what you envision yourself doing with your Econ PhD (becoming a researcher should be the main goal). Point 2: Elaborate why you are prepared from an academic point view in terms of classes. No need to list all of your classes, but stress that you have the proper math training. Point 3: Talk about any research experience. Here, please do not go into too much detail on exactly what you did, but instead focus on the fact that you know what research is like, but also know that you still have a long way to go until you can conduct independent research. And a PhD will help you become a better researcher. Point 4: Any other preparations you have done to prepare yourself and your field interest. Explain why. Point 5: Why the school you are applying to is a good fit and if applicable, what you bring to the table. Why are you different from any other Chinese applicant. Conclude with the fact you would like to become a qualified researcher. Good luck everyone!

My impression is that they are comparable but have slightly different focuses. I have not taken the GSB sequences and hence cannot provide too much insight, but I do know that many GSB PhDs take the Econ sequences to fulfill the course requirement and it also prepares them for their core. Good luck.

5 is typical for people who enter the academic job market, 4 if not. My personal opinion is that people from our school can all find an academic job somewhere, but many people have a threshold below which it's not worth it, and hence opt for something more lucrative. After all, we cannot all be stars. We give it our best try to become a star, but there is nothing wrong with hedging our bets.

Stanford Econ aims to have approx. 25 students per class.

I know a student one year above me whose adviser is Larry, so yes, he definitely takes on grad students.

I believe that program is for high school students, but no worries, first years will receive an one-month math camp free of charge prior to school starts. So you can brush up on your math skills there. Good luck!

Attrition rate is low. Among my year, only one person left for not passing the comp. I think this individual were given the chance to retake the comp but decided to pursue something else in life. There are no forced-outs. If you want to be here and show the effort to reflect your desire, you won't be pushed out by the department. My personal experience with advisers have been awesome. Although my primary adviser is a big name with a busy schedule, he still makes time for me 1 time per week if I think such high frequency is necessary. My secondary adviser is also very senior, but allows me to swing by his office unannounced if I need him for something quick. He would tell me to come back later if he's busy, but more often than not he is happy to take a 5 minute break from his work to answer my questions. I also co-authored a paper with one of my advisers, so that gives you some idea on how friendly my advisers are.