haddy74

HBS: Don't waste your time and money Wharton: Probably not. Chicago/Columbia......Pick anyone of them. They are at par by all means. If you have time and money, i would apply to both of them. INSEAD/LBS.............Pick one. INSEAD is consulting mecca and LBS is good in finance. Overall I would rate INSEAD higher than LBS and at par with US-based M7 schools. LBS is not bad either but it is really one-dimensional right now (finance). MIT: A very small class..with your profile, it will be really hard to get in. That does not mean that Columbia/Chicago/INSEAD are easier to get into, but at least they take, 700 (jan term+ sep term), 550 and 900 (jan term + sep term) kids respectively......so you could be a little bit more lucky....plus Garcia at MIT seems to be really non-supportive of Indians from India...I won't apply there. Cornell/Berkeley/NYU/Tuck/U of M: if i have to pick two, I would pick NYU and Cornell as they would be easier to get into than Tuck plus they are both really strong in finance placements. I wont apply to Berkeley unless you want to work in CA. Forget U of M. When schools are asking for Career Goals, is it a good idea to give specific information (example, “Want to have a company with 500 employees with $90M revenue…..” instead of just saying “Want to own a big company”). I can back the specific information since I have a business plan drafted so I won’t get baffled if they get more specific… No..you should not be that specific. Your career goals should be broad-based. In Optional essays they are asking for any new information you can provide? – How far back do you want to go in your career/life? This is where I think I will want to talk about the strike but not 100% sure. Any advice?NO...dont talk about the strike issue in the optional essay...If your involvement in the strike was legitimate and you did what you said in your earlier posts, you should get one leadership essay out of it. No matter which school you end up applying, you will have to write a leadership essay. Whether you know how to present your strike material in strategic way or not, I DON’T KNOW but you should give it a shot. If presented properly with an eye on B-school specific jargons, this essay could make or break your application especially at Columbia/INSEAD. Any regrets / Any weakness in the application? – Is it a good idea to talk about lower GPA especially fluctuating GPA? That is what the optional essay is for. Keep it as short as possible. Is it advisable to talk about any weaknesses in the application or just personality weaknesses?Your boss would talk about it in the recommendation letter. You don't have to write about it unless the essasy asks for it. When they are asking for leadership experience, should I talk about Strike there or should I talk about leading work groups there and leave the strike for optional essays?You should talk about the strike issue in the leadership essay. There are many other places in the application to shed light on career-specific leadership experiences.

Well EMBA programs are going through a sort of transformational phase right now. In past, majority of the student body at EMBA was covered by their respective employers and students were supposed to keep working for their employers upon graduation for few years due to the contractual issues. However, all notable EMBA programs (Chicago, Kellogg, Wharton, Duke, NYU, and Columbia) have observed a marked departure from the old trend in last few years. Almost all top EMBA programs are reporting that close to 40-50% of their student body is paying the tuition fee on its own. Theses schools are offering the exact same loan services to EMBA students which are being offered to their full time students. This new trend at EMBA programs would have some serious implications as discussed below. When a student is willing to pay $120K (EMBA programs are more expensive than full time programs) on its own, it is pretty obvious that he is looking for a career change or to work for a different employer in the same industry upon graduation. For this, EMBA programs need to initiate career services that are specifically catered towards EMBA students who are more senior and experienced in comparison to their full time program counterparts. While no top EMBA program has started providing the “full” career services to EMBA students, all of them have recognized the need of such services. As a result, you will now see some effort on behalf of top school to provide their EMBA students with career switch/job search services. As far as I know, CBS and Duke are most active on this front. CBS dean openly mentions to his full-time MBA recruiters to contact him directly if they are interested in hiring experienced candidates. Wharton is not far behind either. Actually, Wharton has lately announced that their self-sponsored EMBA students would have full access to full-time MBA career services after first year. See links below: http://www2.gsb.columbia.edu/emba/career_svc/index.html http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/mbaexecutive/admissions/choosing/compare.cfm http://www.fuqua.duke.edu/mba/executive/careers/ Having said that, the fact remains that switching a career through an EMBA program remains a vague option and it does not substitute a full time program by any means. But there is a hope! Top B-Schools are quickly recognizing that they cannot apply same rules to EMBA programs which they apply to part-time MBA. While 100% of part-time students reject full-time programs for variety of reasons and choose to join a part time program “BY CHOICE”, majority of EMBA students cannot join full time programs even if they are willing to due to age restrictions. One more thing, just like full-time MBA program, try to aim high for EMBA too. There is no point of spending money on schools that are ranked below 10.

dude, do yourself a favor and aim high........i don’t want to say much but if you have a strategic mind and know how to present things proactively, the "strike" issue could really help you...go for INSEAD, LBS, Chicago and Columbia. I am not suggesting that it would be easy for you but you have enough meat to at least submit a decent application for these schools. Outside these schools, apply to Cornell/NYU and Yale (both will help you with finance).

one correction here...Chicago GSB has been a top 3 EMBA program for a long time and it DOES NOT require GMAT......

For the sake of argument, what difference would it make if someone targets Wharton/Chicago/Columbia/Stern without having prior knowledge of post-MBA finance-related careers? I mean, all of these schools would provide you with enough opportunities in any finance- related career with an exception of PE/HF. It is good to know more about finance-related career paths before applying but practically speaking , you can pretty much switch to any finance-related career (IB/IM/Corp Finance, buy side, sell side) with an exception of PE/HF as long as you get admitted to any M7 school esp H/S/W/Chi/Col.. It is not like you won’t get into Corp Finance if you go to Columbia or IM is a big NO-NO if you go to Chicago or forget IB from Stern. If that was the case, I can understand the importance of knowing different finance related career paths before appling to schools. Although your comment is definitely valid for folks who are targeting PE/HF as getting into these two fields requires prior experience in a top IB/IM/PE/HF firms and usually H/S are the best schools for these two careers and folks should know about this before targeting these industries. PE/HF is not going to happen from Stern/Col/Chi that easily.

Espyn: I know where GMATBong is coming from but it would be difficult for other people to comprehend his thoughtprocess unless they have gone through the process by themselves. What GMATBong is referring to is based upon speculation/perception that B-school students have about some of these schools. And there is a reason for these perceptions to remain in place for so long. What it means that such perceptions are not totally wrong. The question becomes why these schools allow such perceptions to develop at the first place. While HBS had established its reputation to be a school that values “leadership” really high, its competitors also needed some sort of unique attribute attached to their respective brands. Stanford, quite strategically I must say, started promoting its infamous question ‘what matters most” as a deal breaker question. Over the years, many admission consultants witnessed that Stanford actually appreciates a non-traditional response (fighting against adversity, society, social norms etc) to this question, although S-adcom would never admit it publically. Slowly but gradually, this perception started developing and now everyone who is serious about applying to Stanford knows about it. So in many ways, Stanford has developed its own branding mantra described as below: “Like HBS, we also want leaders but we Stafordanions are different and one step ahead of HBS and therefore, we want folks who are sort of unique and posses different thinking pattern by virtue of their not-so-common living experiences and who can change the world in a socially responsible way” But what does it mean? Do you really think that Stanford would fill its class with Not-So-Common kids (coming from average/poorer back grounds) who have no pedigree? Absolutely not. I have applied to these schools, visited them, attended their information sessions, and met their students. So, I stand behind my words. Here is the reality. While Stanford GSB crafted a certain image about its legacy (as explained above) for marketing purposes, in reality it will fill 90% of its class with pedigree-oriented kids i.e. undergrad from Ivy/Chicago/MIT/Stanford, working experience at top IB/MC/F50 companies, strong family back ground (very important, there is a reason why these schools ask about your mom and dad’s education/profession in applications), high GMAT scores, and strong extra curricular activities. Of course there will be a lot of kids with such rich backgrounds but only those would make it through who could present themselves in a strategic way fulfilling Stanford GSB mantra. Hence comes the “fit” phenomenon into picture that GMATBONG was referring to in his earlier post. And by the way, you don’t have to be poor/gay/lesbian to possess a “different thinking pattern" that is desirous of Stanford GSB. And if you don’t have one, well, make one! (I am just kidding, don’t do it, Be yourself) After filling 90% of the class with so-called “socially conscious” leaders with rich backgrounds, Mr. Bolton would start paying attention to average folks i.e. state schools undergrads, reasonable but not stellar work exp etc. For those 30 to 40 kids, all those stories e.g. fighting against society, social norms, living a life of gay in middle east etc would become much more important and Stanford would let “slip” all these stories quite masterfully through internet, forums etc to enhance its perception. Anyway, I hope you get the idea. Wharton is no exception either. GMATBong is spot on about “consistency” as far as Wharton is concerned. I would add one more thing to Wharton. It also requires “a matured and clear thinking” no matter how old you are. But I would let you guys figure out what exactly Wharton wants in terms of “consistency” and “matured and crystal clear thinking process”. Getting into a M7 school was never easy but now days it has become a war! Sad.

Based on my personal interaction with a lot of fellow old applicants (I was 32 myself when I started the application process), do not even waste your time and effort at HBS and S. Let me categorically state that it is almost impossible to get into HBS/S if you are above 30 unless you are a gay/lesbian, minority, army, lawyer, doctor etc. One other thing. At Stanford, if you do not have high GMAT and a prestigious undergard, changes of getting an admission are actually slim than Harvard precisely due to Stanford’s small class as well as personal preferences of Bolton – Stanford’s admissions director. Harvard has a much bigger class and therefore, they are always willing to take risk and admit many what I call “non-pedigree” kids. Wharton is also almost impossible if you are above 32 as Wharton’s new director Tom Caleel is going for a younger class but with a politically-correct execution, Wharton is still attainable. And frankly speaking, even if you were below 30, your chances of getting admission at H/S were slim to none as your extras are really weak, work experience is sort of traditional and GMAT is low. If you had some sort of legitimate political lineage/pedigree (which you might have and we are not aware of it) and you could tie it into socially responsible post-MBA goals, the story could be different. After all Musharaf’s son got into Stanford GSB at 33. He wants to reform the education system of Pakistan! Kellog is not that difficult to get into (relatively speaking) but among M7 schools, Kellogg really looks for outstanding community services and you don’t have them. I would say, go for Chicago, Wharton and Columbia. Permanent resident (PR) with an IT background may hurt you because now, as GMATbong said, your application would be compared against Indian/Chinese PR whose average GMAT will be close to 720, if not higher. I may sound negative but I am just being honest. I am also originally from Pakistan, 33, a permanent resident, and applited to all M7 minus MIT+INSEAD last year. Good luck.

jmat: I did not apply to EMBA. I ended up applying to FT programs only. Regards

V-rap: Wharton and Columbia EMBA require GMAT. Chicago GSB does not require it. I made it to INSEAD, Columbia and Chicago. Debating between INSEAD and Columbia.

I agree. That was one the biggest dilemmas - FT or EMBA - that I faced when I decided to pursue an MBA. Being an older candidate (33), a lot of folks told me to focus on EMBA but I was always skeptical about certain aspects of EMBA such as lack of networking, weak recruiting opportunities, disastrous work/life balance etc. In end, I ended up applying to FT programs.

Well no one can predict your chances but frankly speaking, with a state school undergrad, weak GPA and that too in a very soft major in conjunction with relatively weak leadership activities (gambling is good but it is not exactly what a top B-schools look for), I really don’t see HBS happening. Stanford/Wharton may be. 790 in GMAT is good but it is just a small piece of a bigger puzzle. Good luck.

While we are on this topic, what are your thoughts on part-time vs EMBA. I personally consider EMBA a much better option both in terms of quality of participants and pedigree plus the format of EMBA allows you to spend a lot of time with your fellow mates just like full time students thus allowing you to establish a closer bond with your peers whereas in the part time program, you simply rush back to your home once the class finishes. Lately, I have also observed top EMBA programs (Wharton and Columbia) paying special attention to their students’ recruiting, which is a very good sign.

In 2006, a friend of mine (to keep the record straight, I only know him from this forum not personally), U of Chicago fresh graduate, 22, 3.8 GPA (Econ major), 790 GMAT, decent extra, a lot of leadership activities at shcool, got into Stanford. You have a strong chance at Stanford as Bolton loves high GMAT scores and prestigious undergrads....

so it means I should go to Columbia instead of INSEAD considering my post-MBA goals involve working in USA. I was thinking to use Wharton Exchange (as an INSEAD student) to find the job in US. The good thing about Columbia Business School is that it has the brand name of Columbia University which is a pretty big brand. INSEAD is still relatively unknown in USA. Any suggestions. Regards

Thanks for all of your help. Based on your vast experience, where would you place INSEAD and LBS in terms of admission competitiveness while comparing with US business schools? Thanks