jlad86

Hey Mobius, Looks like we're in the same boat....I think we should rob a bank, are you in?:D

I'm going to be funding my first year at Michigan primarily through loans....depending on different assumptions, I'll be taking out between $34,000-$46,000...Under what I would consider a "likely" scenario, $40,000 is a reasonable estimate. The Goal: Use savings in years 2-5 to get down to $30,000 in debt by the end. I gave up a funded offer at Maryland to do this...I think many would call me stupid, but Michigan is extremely strong in my field(s) of interest, and I really liked Ann Arbor (conversely, while the Maryland campus was beautiful and the department is only marginally weaker in my area of interest, I did not like College Park at all).

Okay, that was supposed to come out as a table.......

Here's my estimate for one academic year (which I have assumed to be a 10-month period)...Where weekly estimates were more appropriate, I assumed 40 weeks: Expense 10-month Period Assumption Housing 5000 $500/month Utilities 500 $50/month Cell Phone 500 $50/month Food 2000 $50/week for 40 weeks Supplies 250 $25/month Books 500 lump-sum assumption Daily Transportation 0 Public transit free for students! Miscellaneous 2400 $60/week for 40 weeks Air Travel 400 2 round-trip tickets Detroit to Boston, $200 each Total costs 11550 N/A Monthly costs 1155 N/A T.A. salary 16500 Michigan GSI Less taxes 14025 15% tax rate Impied savings 2475 N/A savings rate 0.15 percentage of gross earnings "Supplies" include laundry detergent, toothpaste, contact solution, etc.

Speaking of taxes, does anyone know what the average tax rate would be (just federal...assume no state) for someone in in a grad student's income range (i.e. a stipend of $15000-$25000)? I've been conservatively estimating 20%, but I think it would be more like 15%.

You know, one thing that I've been adding to my budget is a "miscellaneous" expenditure column, which I have been setting at $50-75 dollars a week. In a sense, I'd treat it as an individual fixed effect, so that all omitted spending items (which will vary by individual) are captured. Undoubtedly, I'm not really being econometrically correct, but it helps me establish an upper bound for spending.

I don't know, Breakz, I'd say your low-balling a few of those figures...I've been assuming $50/week for food at a minimum (and this was a diet composed of rice, beans, coffee, and some other things..but maybe I just eat a lot)...and I've been pegging rent at closer to $500/month (though, this included utilities). Plus, there are other costs like cell phone bills, etc. Laundry is a good point, though, I never thought of that!

Hello All, Competition: How little do you think you can live off of in a single academic year in graduate school? Break down your costs (which are obviously going to be geographically specific), and see how far your stipend (or, if you are like me, your loan) will go! I think this might be a useful exercise; when I first started trying to get a handle on how much it would cost to live in a place, costs that you might not think about immediately (like transportation) really added up to be huge.

Dear GymShorts, I appreciate your comment, but I must stress that I am trying to avoid a complex debate about the specifics of this thought experiment. In response to your comments, I will agree that it is overly simple to describe this as purely a test of risk aversion. Given the choice set (and the fact that I am controlling for research interests), I would interpret choosing Maryland as being the defacto risk averse choice (it could be that someone strictly prefers Maryland to all other choices even without funding, but I think this is would deviate from the norm). Choosing one of the unfunded offers could imply that one is either less risk averse or that the value added by the choice (to the specific person) outweighs the risk involved (the latter, I would say, is more likely). I did not add options randomly because I don't feel doing so would add a lot to the exercise (i.e. adding "harvard (funded or unfunded)" would trivialize the choice for most people, whereas adding any school perceived to be less prestigous than Maryland would add nothing (since choosing such a department would, in a sense, represent a risk-loving choice)). So, to be more accurate, I am interested in seeing how (given a specific research interest and a list of similar, yet (by assumption) rankable options) people trade off preferences for school and aversion to risk. In any case, I would really like to avoid a digression about these issues, it is only meant to be an interesting and light-hearted exercise. Please note that a key assumption in this whole exercise is that people are able to fully and certainly quantify differences in the relative strengths of departments (in the given research area). This is a huge abstraction from reality, but I don't think it is unreasonable to suspect that people act as if they are able to do so (i.e. they think they can quantify differences)

Hello All, I have decided to try to conduct a little experiment to judge how risk adverse prospective econ grad students are. Therefore, I ask you to consider the following thought experiment: Given: you are a budding economist whose interests are primarily in the applied fields surrounding health and labor economics Choice: You must choose one of the following options 1. Michigan (unfunded)...expected debt: $50,000 2. Maryland (fully funded)...expected debt: $0 3. Wisconsin (unfunded)...expected debt: $40,000 4. UCSD (unfunded....but with a large probability of partial funding)...expected debt: $20,000 5. BU (most likely unfunded)...expected debt: $60,000 Before I hear screams of protest, I encourage all of you to ignore the potential issues regarding sample bias, etc. (this is not meant to be a scientific poll!)...I am just interested to see the results NOTE: I want to assure everyone that I am not using this as a way to make my decision (I'm already pretty set on Michigan)...I did use my research interests and choice set, but that's only because those are the only ones I know. I hope to get lots of responses, and I will share the results at the end!

Dear OP, I didn't check every post, so I may be repeating what someone else said, but I saw some of what you wrote regarding loans; given that I am in the same situation (I'm trying to decide michigan unfunded vs. maryland funded), I've done a lot of research into what loaning 50k would mean to an American. Here is what I know: 1. Stafford loans: $20,500 @ FIXED 6.8%($8,500 subsidized, $12,000 unsubsidized). "Subsidized" means that the government pays the interest for you while you are in school. Additionally, there is a grace period after you complete school (I believe it is 9 months) 2. GradPLUS loans: Remainder ($29,500) @ FIXED 7.9% (no subsidy). There are several things about these loans that make them better than private loans that do not carry a federal backing. Firstly, the interest rate is fixed and is the same for everyone (your credit will NOT affect the rate)...Additionally, the credit check is not a traditional credit check; rather, it is only a check for adverse credit history (I was confused about this point too, but I spoke with some people at Michigan and UCSD's financial aid office for clarification). I encourage you to read more here (it is a FAQ for the GradPLUS program); essentially, you will be approved (without a co-signer) as long as you have not filed for bankruptcy, have delinquent debts, or have done a couple of other things in the last five years (i.e. had wages garnished to pay debts). This was a big point for me because I have no credit history (I never bothered to get a credit card, which makes me pretty stupid). Additionally, GradPLUS loans can be consolidated with your other federal debts. 3. Based on my calculations, a good upper bound for the monthly payment of this amount of debt ($50k) is $600/month (and actually a little bit less)...If you make it through your Ph.D program this will not represent a significant chunk of your gross monthly income (6-7%), but If you fail it could be problematic. Assuming an outside option of $45,000/year (i.e. the salary at the job you get when you fail out), this monthly payment would represent about 14% of your gross monthly income (which is at the upper limits of what college board says you should pay). This monthly payment assumes that you pay things off on a 10-year note (which is standard); of course, you can consolidate all of these debts and pay them off over a longer time frame for less per month (though, you pay a lot more interest). Hope this helps!

Note: the "My final" bit at the end was a typo...I was trying to lay my thoughts out in advance and forgot that it was there!

Hi guys, Thanks for all of the feedback, you have been throwing around lots of great ideas. I'll try to respond to some of the questions asked (implicit and explicit)..but let me know if I missed anything. 1. The UCSD offer is also unfunded, but there seems to be a high probability that I would pick up at least partial funding my first year. In addition, it is less expensive in an absolute sense, and California provides about 10k in grant money to need-based Americans....Putting all of this together, an upper-bound for indebtedness would be 30k or so (and most likely half-that, due to a partial TA-ship that is typically offered to unfunded incoming students). My main concerns with UCSD are not money-based, I'm much more concerned that their strength lies much more in theory (and of course metrics) rather than applied work. However, I contacted a faculty member (and a student) about this point, and was given some excellent feedback about the department's recent progress in hiring applied faculty (there are also some affiliated faculty in IRPS (or ISPR...basically,the public policy/political science school) who do applied research). In any case, I'll be leaving to visit there tomorrow, so hopefully that will be some chances to pick up more info. 2. I think I should spell out my logic for the Maryland/Michigan debate more clearly. I have spoken to LOTS of faculty and students at both places (both during my visits and afterwards), and I liked both very much....The following are reasons that I see as arguments in Michigan's favor: a. Better overall placement record (though, Maryland's placement in 2009 has been excellent, and the past several years have been very solid as well) b. Lots of opportunity in affiliated programs (i.e. the Ford School of Public Policy, the School of Public Health, etc.)...My impression when I visited was that this provides lots of possibilities for applied research (since I'm interested in health economics, talking with an economist in the School of Public Health was particularly cool). c. Fairly good chance of getting TA-ship in second semester (this implies debt of 25k, rather than 50k...but it also implies working in the first year) d. The whole debt issue is only troubling to me in the sense that it would be burdensome if I were to not make it through the program...conditional on getting a Ph.D. (and being reasonably placed, top 75 perhaps) I think my first year salary would fall in the 80k-90k range (please correct me if I'm overestimating), and the monthly payments would not be a large fraction of income. I know that Michigan's attrition rate is low, but it is positive! e. I don't really buy the whole money=love argument...of the four students I went to lunch with at Michigan, three came to the school unfunded, and one of them was at the top of their class...apparently, only about 50% of incoming students are funded. f. probably the biggest point: There are two or three senior-type faculty at Maryland who I think would really fit my interests well, and there are several others who might be good too (but I just don't know enough about them to tell)....At Michigan, I could probably find 10 people who were a great match. I think it is pretty typical for health economists to have public finance be their primary field, and Michigan seems to have an army of public finance people (again, Maryland is no slouch in this area either, and I think many of their best placements have come out of public finance). I think I've written too much, but hopefully it has organized the insanity that is my mind...perhaps I should just flip a coin. My final

Hi Guys, I have been following these threads for a few months now, and it seems as though this admissions season is finally winding down (which, in a sense, means that it is actually heating up!). Given all that we have been through (collectively and individually), I would like to suggest that we take some time to reflect on our experience. As a result, I suggest the following: 1. Give your profile and your acceptances/rejections 2. What would you have done differently? 3. What did you do right? 4. What do you suggest for future applicants? 5. What did you find useful about on-line forums (i.e. GC, TestMagic, etc.)? 6. What has been bad about them? The first point is a lot like the "Decisions" thread, but I think the remaining points will be very useful for future applicants (and potentially therapeutic for people who have just gone through this process). I hope there is a hint of originality to this concept; if not, please let me know which currently existing thread I should have used. I'll start: 1. Profile Education: BA Econ/Math, MA Econ (done as a combined program) at top 25 U.S. econ department GPA:3.94 (at time of application...graduating this May) GRE: 760Q/580V/4.5AWA Research Experience: Two summers as an RA, one with a faculty member in my department, another at the Census Bureau Math Background: Calc 1-3, Linear Algebra, Differential EQ, Optimization, Real Analysis (two course sequence), Basic Stat/Prob, Applied Stat, Econometrics Acceptances: BU, U-Michigan, U-Maryland ($$), U-Wisconsin, UCSD Rejections: Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Duke, Columbia, UCLA, Princeton STILL Waiting: Cornell Attending: U-Michigan, or U-Maryland, or UCSD 2. What would I have done differently? I would have taken the GRE again! In the end, I think the GRE plays a small role in the overall application, but a very significant role. Had I worked harder to get the 800Q (not to mention some better scores on V and AWA), I think that could have helped. 3. What did I do right? I was very proactive about the application process...I turned things in way ahead of schedule, and was very careful in preparing my materials. I have known that I wanted to go to graduate school in econ for a while, so I planned a lot of my academic schedule around that concept. 4. Advice for future applicants Get a perfect score on the GRE Q...it won't do a thing for you unless the rest of your application is strong, but I think it'll help you get past the first screening (I have also heard that at some departments it plays a bigger role in financial aid decisions). Also, if you are still in school, make sure your spring semester is REALLY EASY...it is unbelievably distracting to wait for decisions, so don't make it worse by having lots of work to do besides. In addition, when deciding where to go (unless you have a golden offer and the choice is obvious), make sure you ask a variety of people for their opinion. Ultimately, of course, only you can decide what is best for you, but if you are trying to make decisions based on reputation, I would say it is good to talk to lots of professors (most likely, opinions will differ!). On a related point, I would say that (especially if you want to be an academic), placement records are FAR more important than rankings (the two are highly correlated, but there are exceptions to this). 5.What has been useful about on-line forums? They are a great way to gather information quickly, GC was especially helpful when trying to form expectations about when letters would be received. 6.How were on-line forums bad? Trying to form expectations about decisions will drive you insane....If you're not careful (i.e. you don't search for diverse opinions), on-line forums can be a leading source of misinformation.

That is a very clear way of putting it, GoldenRule, and I think that this viewpoint will prevail for me (in the end)...Many people go to U-Mich unfunded; from talking with the director of admissions, the typical percentage is around 50%....It's just very tough to turn down money (and the certainty it provides!)