ohmygrades Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) I'm from an Australian top uni with first class honors in economics, my goal is top30 but now I think my math grades should be a disadvantage. Edited November 20, 2019 by Erin By request Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startz Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 No worries. That one grade won't keep you out of top 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygrades Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 No worries. That one grade won't keep you out of top 30. Thanks! Seems like that a low math grade is a pretty bad signal. I just read some posts and some applicants with perfect math grades are aiming for top 40 or 50...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlin Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 When you say you're from an Australian top uni, you must be from one of UNSW, ANU or UniMelb. Top 30 schools would already have the expectation that the graduate measure theory in one of these schools is very tough. A pass grade for that course is for sure not a positive signal, but may not be as bad as you think. The minimum mathematics is up to real analysis. Measure theory is more "advanced" than real analysis so it does not carry too much weight to begin with. Your research experience however, will carry more weights than a single measure theory course. Your advisor is from one of the three schools ,you have a great Honours thesis at one of these schools and you're RAed for your advisor. I think you're fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygrades Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 Thanks! My primary degree is from ANU and I did those math courses there. But my honors is from USYD as there was no mid-year entry in ANU, is this important? I thought USYD should be one of the top unis in Australia.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygrades Posted November 2, 2019 Author Share Posted November 2, 2019 When you say you're from an Australian top uni, you must be from one of UNSW, ANU or UniMelb. Top 30 schools would already have the expectation that the graduate measure theory in one of these schools is very tough. A pass grade for that course is for sure not a positive signal, but may not be as bad as you think. The minimum mathematics is up to real analysis. Measure theory is more "advanced" than real analysis so it does not carry too much weight to begin with. Your research experience however, will carry more weights than a single measure theory course. Your advisor is from one of the three schools ,you have a great Honours thesis at one of these schools and you're RAed for your advisor. I think you're fine. Thanks! My primary degree is from ANU and I did those math courses there. But my honors is from USYD as there was no mid-year entry in ANU, is this important? I thought USYD should be one of the top unis in Australia.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startz Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 USYD is very good. If you have strong letters you should be in good shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlin Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 Thanks! My primary degree is from ANU and I did those math courses there. But my honors is from USYD as there was no mid-year entry in ANU, is this important? I thought USYD should be one of the top unis in Australia.... Sorry, from your previous description I thought you were from the "top of the top schools" which were inarguably those three. And I was even thinking how could you get your Honours grade so early with February entry into the program. Of course, USYD and Monash are two best schools after those three. In my opinion, if you are heading towards Top 5 then you really should do your Honours in those top three schools (and get good grades for sure). But your target is Top 30, so an Honours from USYD should be good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erckle Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Sorry, from your previous description I thought you were from the "top of the top schools" which were inarguably those three. And I was even thinking how could you get your Honours grade so early with February entry into the program. Of course, USYD and Monash are two best schools after those three. In my opinion, if you are heading towards Top 5 then you really should do your Honours in those top three schools (and get good grades for sure). But your target is Top 30, so an Honours from USYD should be good enough. Apart from letter writer availability (about which I don't know much), the piece of paper from USYD is just as good as the others. USYD placed someone at Harvard this year, for example. There is no upper bound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygrades Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 Apart from letter writer availability (about which I don't know much), the piece of paper from USYD is just as good as the others. USYD placed someone at Harvard this year, for example. There is no upper bound. But I don’t have a university medal, and this makes a big difference. Besides, my letter writers are not that well known. Now I don’t think I have a chance for top15 or even top20. Probably a medal is a must for top15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startz Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 But I don’t have a university medal, and this makes a big difference. Besides, my letter writers are not that well known. Now I don’t think I have a chance for top15 or even top20. Probably a medal is a must for top15. How many university medals are given out in Economics in a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygrades Posted November 5, 2019 Author Share Posted November 5, 2019 How many university medals are given out in Economics in a year? I’m not sure, sometimes one or two, sometimes up to five. And some of them don’t apply for PhD. I know that two students with medals from last year will apply for 2020 fall and their target is top5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startz Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 You don't need to be the best student at USYD to get into a top 15 program. You don't need a medal. The people at USYD--most of whom have American PhDs--can give you good advice as to a reasonable range of target schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erckle Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 I’m not sure, sometimes one or two, sometimes up to five. And some of them don’t apply for PhD. I know that two students with medals from last year will apply for 2020 fall and their target is top5. There have been 5 in one year at Sydney Uni? That sounds extremely high. I thought two was the absolute upper limit. In any case, I don't completely buy into this obsession with uni medals that people assign to getting into graduate programs. Also consider that (at least in UNSW's case) uni medals were only awarded a few months after applications were due. So if you are graduating this year, given this can't be known until maybe January or February, perhaps it is less of an issue. But one thing that is a bit unclear from your original post: what are you counting as an A/B/C etc? ANU grades out of 100 with HD/D/etc I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygrades Posted November 6, 2019 Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 There have been 5 in one year at Sydney Uni? That sounds extremely high. I thought two was the absolute upper limit. In any case, I don't completely buy into this obsession with uni medals that people assign to getting into graduate programs. Also consider that (at least in UNSW's case) uni medals were only awarded a few months after applications were due. So if you are graduating this year, given this can't be known until maybe January or February, perhaps it is less of an issue. But one thing that is a bit unclear from your original post: what are you counting as an A/B/C etc? ANU grades out of 100 with HD/D/etc I thought. A is HD and B is D, I was thinking that people here might not be familiar with HD/D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erckle Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 A is HD and B is D, I was thinking that people here might not be familiar with HD/D. Alright I see. The advice commonly given on this forum is still true: ask your letter writers where they think you might get in / should apply. Potential for quite high variance so I would apply quite widely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygrades Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 Alright I see. The advice commonly given on this forum is still true: ask your letter writers where they think you might get in / should apply. Potential for quite high variance so I would apply quite widely. I’ll apply to up to 15 schools, probably USC is the bottom line. My letter writers also told me to apply widely as there would be much noise. I know ANU sent students to UW Madison, Maryland and Queen’s last year but still it’s very hard to make predictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startz Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I’ll apply to up to 15 schools, probably USC is the bottom line. My letter writers also told me to apply widely as there would be much noise. I know ANU sent students to UW Madison, Maryland and Queen’s last year but still it’s very hard to make predictions. This is a good strategy. One more suggestion that I often give to my students. Make up a preliminary list of schools. Then ask your letter writers if they suggest either striking some or adding some at either the top or the bottom. This lets them politely say not to bother applying to Harvard...or to tell you that you have too many safety schools and should be being more aggressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygrades Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 This is a good strategy. One more suggestion that I often give to my students. Make up a preliminary list of schools. Then ask your letter writers if they suggest either striking some or adding some at either the top or the bottom. This lets them politely say not to bother applying to Harvard...or to tell you that you have too many safety schools and should be being more aggressive. Actually I did make a list and below is a summary of what my letter writers said: Prof1: You should also consider Yale. Me: I should add USC. Prof1: Yes you should add some safe schools. Prof2: This is a good list, maybe you should pick a few safe schools: a, USC , c... Prof3: Don’t apply to Yale. Me: I’ll add some safer schools like Davis and a, b. Prof3: They are not safe, you should add Boston College. (?) So at the end of the day, I’ll just apply widely after having a look at their faculties and placement records..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erckle Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Actually I did make a list and below is a summary of what my letter writers said: Prof1: You should also consider Yale. Me: I should add USC. Prof1: Yes you should add some safe schools. Prof2: This is a good list, maybe you should pick a few safe schools: a, USC , c... Prof3: Don’t apply to Yale. Me: I’ll add some safer schools like Davis and a, b. Prof3: They are not safe, you should add Boston College. (?) So at the end of the day, I’ll just apply widely after having a look at their faculties and placement records..... I am not sure what the outside option is, but perhaps Prof3's letter won't be all that amazing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygrades Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 I am not sure what the outside option is, but perhaps Prof3's letter won't be all that amazing... I know that... but probably letters for different schools would be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startz Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 I know that... but probably letters for different schools would be different. Don't count on that. Because letters are all done electronically, it is quite common for the same letter to go to all schools. That can be a problem if you apply to Yale after being discouraged from doing so. You're in a bit of an awkward situation with different faculty giving you different advice. If you have good relations with Prof3 you may want to say "Prof1 suggested Yale, although you discouraged it. Is that going to be a problem in terms of the letter?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygrades Posted November 8, 2019 Author Share Posted November 8, 2019 Don't count on that. Because letters are all done electronically, it is quite common for the same letter to go to all schools. That can be a problem if you apply to Yale after being discouraged from doing so. You're in a bit of an awkward situation with different faculty giving you different advice. If you have good relations with Prof3 you may want to say "Prof1 suggested Yale, although you discouraged it. Is that going to be a problem in terms of the letter?" Actually I said that and Prof3 agreed to write a letter for Yale. But obviously this letter will not be strong. It seems like that those schools will ask letter writers to rank me, and likely I will not get the highest one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
startz Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 The issue is whether Prof3 would write a stronger letter if it weren't going to Yale. Not something you really have much control over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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