Making the Case for AREC Departments

[jlist]

Hi Gang: I oftentimes read files and profiles on this site that are screaming out "I should be in an applied micro" program. Yet, I feel that many of you do not strongly consider applying for programs such as Maryland AREC, Berkeley AREC, Arizona AREC, etc.

As a faculty member for 5 years in such programs (1 year at Arizona and 4 years at Maryland (with one year off for the CEA), I can attest to their strength, rigor, and appropriate use of economics to tackle serious questions.

Now some of you might remark that these are inferior programs and that you will not receive proper training, or that you might be discriminated against on the job market coming from an Ag. department.

On the former, note that many of the classes that you take will be alongside Economics students. For example, at Maryland our students took all of the same core classes in micro. They also took the same core exam in micro as the econ students. Plus, even though many AREC departments will not require macro, you can also pick those up from the economics department. In short, you can take the same courses with the same faculty as econ. students in that department!

And, in many cases I would guess that the competition to get admitted to AREC departments is not as stiff as in economics. Thus, short of receiving admission to the economics department at Berkeley, what better way to have the right to take Matthew Rabin's class as a Berkeley phd than coming from the AREC side?

Now on the job market side I must admit I do see some discrimination. In fact, at Maryland I saw first hand the effect, as I had a student from AREC and one from Economics on the market the same year who were comparable and the person from Economics secured more interviews. But, with good research this can be overcome, and the AREC students was placed in the end is thriving.

In the end, I see most decisions here as revolving around an economics department at a school ranked x versus an AREC department at a school ranked y, where x>y. Some of the decisions are easy: I would certainly recommend that my student goes to Maryland AREC instead of UCF economics (they just started a phd).

My thought for the post is that I believe people are not trading off x and y on the margin correctly because of misperceptions of AREC departments. My advice is to have a stern look at some of the top AREC places and think hard about the trade-off. You might be surprised at what you find.

Best,
John
PS If you are seriously considering AREC departments I have posted on the relative rankings in the past. I will not repost here since this message is lengthy already.

[fp3690]

This has to be the most helpful post in a very long time. The back door entry to Berkeley I've always dreamed off! I know you hear this all the time Prof List, but I have to deeply thank you. Most people giving advice around here are well-intentioned and usually correct. But there are so much information a student has, and your input is priceless.

[Olm]

Great post! I never knew this. I'll definitely look into it...

[Karina 07]

I'll add some information about Berkeley's ARE, in case anyone is interested:
- Students take the same pre-fall math camp, first year micro sequence, and in their second year they take one term of the first year macro. They also take 3 econometrics classes, I think one each for the first three terms. Apart from that, it's largely options, and yes, you can take classes in the econ department/an econ field.
- Students interact well between the two departments (for example, some are dating ) and often go to the other department's seminars.

[AspiringEconomist]

This is very helpful. It seems to me that the quandary AREC programs face is similar to that public policy programs have. To the extent that perceptions of their relative "inferiority" (don't mean to be harsh) persist, there will be discrimination on the labor market. It's like a chicken and egg problem: enough strong applicants need to look at these programs as serious options, before a precipitous change in the job market prospects can happen. Other thoughts?

[sunny58]

Originally Posted by jlist

Hi Gang: I oftentimes read files and profiles on this site that are screaming out "I should be in an applied micro" program. Yet, I feel that many of you do not strongly consider applying for programs such as Maryland AREC, Berkeley AREC, Arizona AREC, etc.

As a faculty member for 5 years in such programs (1 year at Arizona and 4 years at Maryland (with one year off for the CEA), I can attest to their strength, rigor, and appropriate use of economics to tackle serious questions.

Now some of you might remark that these are inferior programs and that you will not receive proper training, or that you might be discriminated against on the job market coming from an Ag. department.

On the former, note that many of the classes that you take will be alongside Economics students. For example, at Maryland our students took all of the same core classes in micro. They also took the same core exam in micro as the econ students. Plus, even though many AREC departments will not require macro, you can also pick those up from the economics department. In short, you can take the same courses with the same faculty as econ. students in that department!

And, in many cases I would guess that the competition to get admitted to AREC departments is not as stiff as in economics. Thus, short of receiving admission to the economics department at Berkeley, what better way to have the right to take Matthew Rabin's class as a Berkeley phd than coming from the AREC side?

Now on the job market side I must admit I do see some discrimination. In fact, at Maryland I saw first hand the effect, as I had a student from AREC and one from Economics on the market the same year who were comparable and the person from Economics secured more interviews. But, with good research this can be overcome, and the AREC students was placed in the end is thriving.

In the end, I see most decisions here as revolving around an economics department at a school ranked x versus an AREC department at a school ranked y, where x>y. Some of the decisions are easy: I would certainly recommend that my student goes to Maryland AREC instead of UCF economics (they just started a phd).

My thought for the post is that I believe people are not trading off x and y on the margin correctly because of misperceptions of AREC departments. My advice is to have a stern look at some of the top AREC places and think hard about the trade-off. You might be surprised at what you find.

Best,
John
PS If you are seriously considering AREC departments I have posted on the relative rankings in the past. I will not repost here since this message is lengthy already.

I applied to wisconsin's AAE program. Would you be able to provide me some feedback on the reputation it has in the job market or in general? I was also wondering how AAE programs compare in terms of reputation with economics programs that are ranked in the 25-50 rank. I'm more interested in working outside of academia, so that is why I was particularly drawn to AAE programs.

Thanks!

[AspiringEconomist]

I am acquainted with some Maryland AREC folks and they seem really nice and have solid backgrounds so Jlist has every reason to be proud.

[MexEcon]

Thank you for your advice Prof. List!

[Olm]

EDITED: deleted at MexEcon's request.

[trjohnson]

Hi John:

Do you have any comments on Cornell's Applied Economics and Management program? Though seemingly not an "AREC" program, do you think it compares to Berkeley/Arizona/Maryland AREC as far as quality of program/placements go?

RJ