Tilburg U vs. Tinbergen Institute (Mphil)

[silentwings]

I go fully funded admission to both. While I am leaning towards Tilburg quite much, I would like to know what do you guys think about it.

 

Though Tilburg provides less funding, microeconomics, especially IO, interests me more than theoratical econometrics. Tilburg seems quite strong at micro, though probably not its application in IO.

 

I am an international student, and seriously consider applying some US phd program after finishing the master program. So I'd like to have some of your views on which school is more helpful for the reapplication too.

 

Thanks for your suggestion in advance.

[zsla]

You might have some difficulty in getting references from the Professors at Tinbergen, since they are not sympathetic with the students who aim to get MPhil only. They expect you to go for PhD at Tinbergen. So, if you have such plans, then you should seriously reconsider your roadmap for next year.

[silentwings]

Thanks zsla! Then what about Tilburg? Could it be better with respect to this?

[nauru]

Are they actually like that?? Ha! So what, they're jealous of students who can go on from Tinbergen to better known programs, and as a result wouldn't want to write good recommendations? If that's true it's very childish.

[economicus]

I don't think professors at any top school would be happy to see students leaving their doctoral programme after 2 years of full funding. The programme at tinbergen is for those wishing to pursue phd. Nevertheless, I wouldn't worry much about this... professors are people, you know.

[reactor]

Anyway, I think that Tilburg's reputation is considerably higher than Tinbergen's. But are we talking about CentER at Tilburg?

[economicus]

Perhaps because tilburg is ranked formally,whereas tinbergen is not. However in "effective" ranking tinbergen seems to be better (at least on the basis of what their website states - that by considering all the pubilcations of the members of TI, TI would be ranked top1 in Europe and top15 worldwide).

 

I don't know, but perhaps for applying to usa you are really better of by choosing tilburg...as it seems to have better established reputation...

[zsla]

Thanks zsla! Then what about Tilburg? Could it be better with respect to this?

 

In this sense, Tilburg seems to be a better choice. But don't forget that there is no guarantee of being admitted. Many MSc students from UPF, UCL, LSE, Cam, Ox, and other good schools in Europe are rejected by US schools. So, when making up your mind, you should also take into account that possibility and choose a school that you really may want to get your PhD from in case of a rejection form US schools. This ultimately depends on your taste and research interests.

 

If you are into Econometrics, TI is one of the best places in the world, and it is pretty high ranked (almost top 15 - 20). You may not see their name in the rankings since the Institute is actually like (University of Amsterdam + Erasmus Rotterdam + Vrije University). They are also very good in other fields other than macro, but probably Tilburg is better than them (marginally) in IO/micro stuff.

 

I would personally prefer Tinbergen since it could be really exciting to live in Amsterdam and travelling to Rotterdam occasionally for some courses (they reimburse the travelling expenses - takes 35 min by train). Tilburg is a little town and cannot offer you the great taste that Amsterdam&Rotterdam can do.

 

As I said before, at Tilburg, you can be more flexibile for your future. But at Tinbergen you must show that you wanna stay there. This is the reason they accept you. If you feel brave today, you can send an e-mail to Prof. Jaap Abbring to discuss this :)

[veroniquaz]

Anyway, I think that Tilburg's reputation is considerably higher than Tinbergen's. But are we talking about CentER at Tilburg?

 

I would not say so. In addition, who wants to live in Tilburg?

[reactor]

I would not say so. In addition, who wants to live in Tilburg?

 

How much do you think the place factor should weigh when one is choosing a school for MPhil ? How about PhD?

 

(and i guess you know that, at least in the US, 99% of the times, the PhD students get jobs in other schools, many times in other states or even other countries!)

[veroniquaz]

How much do you think the place factor should weigh when one is choosing a school for MPhil ? How about PhD?

 

(and i guess you know that, at least in the US, 99% of the times, the PhD students get jobs in other schools, many times in other states or even other countries!)

 

The place factor is weighted individually by everybody. For me it would be a reason enough to go to Tinbergen rather than Tilburg. Of course, after you finish your studies you have to go somewhere else but then again choosing where would be a factor for me. Having lived in 6 different countries in last 7 years I really do not have problem with going to new places, but I am trying to choose them wisely. For example, out of my 9 applications this year all went exclusively to places where I could imagine myself living happily.

[zsla]

How much do you think the place factor should weigh when one is choosing a school for MPhil ? How about PhD?

 

(and i guess you know that, at least in the US, 99% of the times, the PhD students get jobs in other schools, many times in other states or even other countries!)

 

Yeah, I agree that this cannot be the sole factor in the school selection. This can be a significant factor only when your choices are almost equivalent in terms of rankings and quality. I think this consideration applies if you are choosing between Tilburg and Tinbergen.

[nauru]

To whomever said Amsterdam to Rotterdam takes 35 minutes:

 

From the Econ department the University of Amsterdam to the econ department at Erasmus, you're looking at 2 hours or more, each way. You'd be very lucky to get from Amsterdam to Utrecht in 35 minutes. (And by Utrecht I mean the train station.)

[zsla]

To whomever said Amsterdam to Rotterdam takes 35 minutes:

 

From the Econ department the University of Amsterdam to the econ department at Erasmus, you're looking at 2 hours or more, each way. You'd be very lucky to get from Amsterdam to Utrecht in 35 minutes. (And by Utrecht I mean the train station.)

 

OK, I might be wrong on this. But, I think the course schedule will be suitable enough to make it on time.

[welett]

sorry didnt notice date

[LouisBD]

Oddly enough,

 

while considering living in a place which requires some commuting is not considered to be an issue when applying for Tinbergen but it is an issue when applying to Tilburg.

It is true that Tilburg might not be your dream city to live in. A very large part of the faculty does not live in Tilburg but in 's Hertogenbosch (nice place) or even Amsterdam or Antwerp. This requires a lot more efforts to arrang all your things and probably not a good idea when you come to Tilburg for the first time. But after your first year it is really not that hard. Moreover, your stipend is large enough.

[hunecon]

I guess you thought of the PhD stipend, since most of the MPhil amount are only 420/month. How much is the PhD salary after taxation?

[Adam_Schmitt]

I have some additional questions with respect to Tilburg.

 

1) How big is the maximum number of students attending a lecture? I have seen that several lectures are compulsory for students from different programs.

2) Is it true that it is now much more difficult to stay for a PhD after the MPhil is completed than in the past?

3) As far as I know there are some students leaving Tilburg after MPhil to attend a doctoral program in the US. Does this imply that the level of the MPhil courses is not similar to the level of courses given at graduate programs in the US? Are the courses at Tinbergen more demanding and comparable to US programs?

 

Thank you for all the good answers already given at TM!

[mho]

The Art of Misinformation and Alluring Students

 

 

The web is full of articles that describe how to spot a liar by tracking eye movements. After enough reading and training you can become an expert liar-spotter, they claim. Never get too confident though. Remember that institutions can also lie and your eye-reading techniques will not work on them. :D

You work like a horse. You have your BS, then an MA in Economics. You manage to get decent grades, some awards, two strong reference letters from well-known professors. Finally you are all set. You apply to some top 50 PhD programs in US. You might even sprinkle some European universities who claim to be competing with US. Why not? After months of waiting you finally receive some letters. Before you make your final decision, you browse some forums, websites, ranking lists, consult your professors, friends. You pack your suitcase, bid farewell to your family and friends. You will come back 4 or 5 years later with a PhD diploma and make everyone proud.

The contract that you just signed says you are admitted to the Mphil programme of a "top European program". In his mail, the graduate program coordinator says you will receive a tiny scholarship and an assistant salary during the two years of your Mphil. After these two years you will receive a three year contract and a regular PhD salary. In his welcome speech he assures all the students that they should already consider themselves in the PhD program. He emphasizes that having an average of 7 (equivalent to B) and finding a PhD supervisor are the only two conditions for PhD admission. If I work hard, like I always do, I can easily make it to the PhD stage you think. As a naive person, you do not ever think that a research institution would lie to its students at this scale.

And the first blow hits you. This should have waked you up. The university suddenly changes the title of the program from "Mphil" to petty "Research Masters". They decide to agree on a solution that does not put current students at a huge disadvantage, after you hire lawyers and push for a lawsuit. They sure listen to their students! Only after they speak out loud.

The best part is yet to come. You become a little suspicious about the other promises that the administration made to the students. You inquire about the future of your "assistantship" job. The graduate studies administration kindly informs you that the students may not keep their position in the second year. The almighty administration intends to cut back its expenses, and your petty assistantship salary is the first thing in their list! What kind of a "top research facility" is this one?

You finally realize that they are totally bogged down. And even worse they do not bother informing you about their financial situation and your uncertain future. They would rather lie until you manage to discover their scam. You are unsure about your future at this institution. So you start digging to discover the truth. At March, when you are almost done with your courses, the university announces that they will only offer a contract to the "research master" students that have an average of 8 (equivalent to an A). Needless to say, it is quite hard to achieve this goal since your courses are already finished. It is their way of saying: We do not have the money, yet we still choose to misinform you in very smart ways.

Out of 25 students, most of whom fulfill the "initial" criteria (an average of 7), only 6 of them are admitted to the PhD program. They also kindly inform you that you should start looking for "external funding" (whatever that means) or in fact you might be better off if you start looking for another PhD program. For those of you who are not familiar with PhD applications: 99% of universities already make their PhD offers until February. I guess the professors in the administration forgot how this procedure works.

That was the brief story of a scandal. We will keep you posted about the details and new information.

It is our moral duty to inform the prospective students about the situation here at the Tilburg University. Unfortunately the university is not good at informing its victims.

Please spread the word !

[nauru]

Just wondering if anyone has any comments regarding the above post? I remember seeing it on a blog somewhere...