adamsmc2 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 So I am torn between two things I love the most. I love economics and everything about it yet I can't seem to step away from the mesmerizing beauty of mathematics. My dilemma is that there have been things I always wanted to do in life, but some of those desires require sacrifice of others. For example, I love teaching, I don't why, I just enjoy the thrill and excitement of explaining a concept to someone and that person understanding. Teaching to me gives me happiness and self-worth, but on the other hand I love doing research in economics, and love all the intricate details that come along with it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, what does anyone else think I should do? I understand that I'll still have to do research in mathematics, which sounds exciting to me, but I would mainly like to get a doctorate in math because I love math and I love sharing math with others. Yet, if I get my Econ PhD, I would want to work for a consulting firm or a statistical think tank that does continuous research within specific areas. The whole Econ Academia life definitely has its pro's, but so does math. Well, if anyone has any advice on how to tackle this problem let me know please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insti Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Well, first of all you should do whatever your heart tells you to do (obviously). Having said that if I weren't that bad with math I would have chosen a math PhD and a career in mathematics (research, not teaching). But that is just me. Also, the research that you will do as an economists would most likely have nothing in common with the research you will do as a math phd. Of course it depends on a lot of things, but I cannot see a consulting firm or a think tank trying to prove Goldbach's Conjecture. So choose wisely :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chateauheart Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 You can get an economics PhD, do research in economics in academia, and teach math economics to undergrads or graduate students. From my impression, not many instructors enjoy teaching the math camp, so you likely won't have much competition if you want to volunteer for that. Plus, you have great discretion in the topics you choose to cover, the pace, the depth, etc. The (academic) job market for economics PhD is less tough than that of math PhDs, and the admissions is also less competitive conditioning on your mathematical ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanomics Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 "I understand that I'll still have to do research in mathematics, which sounds exciting to me, but I would mainly like to get a doctorate in math because I love math and I love sharing math with others." Whatever small difference in rank of preference your indicating now, between teaching and research, might possibly be exacerbated by the demands of math publishing. There are two extraordinary math instructors at my school. One is a clinical professor (teaches teachers, like the highschool teachers in Chicago), and the other is a lecturer. The clinical professor has a math degree and seems a tit bit bitter about not really making it after his post doc, though is just amazing in the classroom and is developing a very fulfilling career. The other guy had a terrible time with his engineering PhD. His adviser was a prick, and I mean a prick. Imagine being told to your face in 4th year that, "You're just not cut out for a PhD." He finished his dissertation, and has absolutely no interest in publishing, at all. He hates the culture. He's just got a gift though. The man can teach, and has endless energy for it. He does equivocate a little. He just had his first baby and is really thinking about private industry to get more money. There is a large divide between mathematical research in economics, and pure math research. Most mathematicians think mathematical economics papers that would make even most economists' heads explode are very badly done. If you think game theory etc is really neat, at a younger level now for instance, understand that there is just an abyss between game theory in the math department and behavior-and-poilcy minded game theoretic papers in economics. You're not dealing with goods that approach perfect substitutes, as your experience with them so far has left you feeling. You really ought to talk to your mentors in both departments, read more journal articles from both, and then see what your MRS is. "I understand I'll still have to do research in mathematics" does not sound like sufficient motivation to charge at the field journals in mathematics. Something it seems one needs to do at full speed as that in Physics or something to actually get anywhere. If you're interested in economics because of the empirical work, then we're talking about a whole different tradeoff. In that case, you can work in private industry and teach calculus at community college at night for fun three days a week, making quite a bit of money and feeling rather fulfilled as well. You've got four relatively distinct options per your interests, which aren't nearly fungible and can be consumed in different relative quantities given the representative consumer's constraints -- full professor in mathematics; some sort of instructor or lecturer in mathematics; full professor in economics; consulting and private empirical work. Those are all very different things with different pay rates and pressures. Basing the choice among them off of your experience in a few upper level courses in either department is not providing you with sufficient information about their differences. Hope that helps. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walras Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 The answer is obvious to me. Do an econ PhD and study theory. Economic theory for all intents and purposes is a math field with a flavoring of economics. The foundations of economic theory were even laid by a combination of mathematicians and economists. After seeing seminars in the math dept and theory seminars in the econ dept I think you would have a hard time telling the difference except the econ dept. has nicer chairs, and usually (if they're good) starts the presentation with an example of a question from the real world. Reality ceases to intrude for the rest of the seminar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanomics Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 The answer is obvious to me. Do an econ PhD and study theory. Economic theory for all intents and purposes is a math field with a flavoring of economics. A proportion approaching 1 of mathematicians would strongly disagree with that statement, but my intention isn't to start a flame war. Still. Mature scientists, social or not, agree that nothing is "proven" in an axiomatic sense in science, but we do, by testing better hypotheses come up with evolving systems of warranted belief. Mathematical and economic theory are not fungible, and if OP is as genuinely taken with the elegance of mathematics, he's going to be eventually disappointed with the hand waving in economic theory. The foundations of economic theory were not laid down by a combination of mathematicians and economists -- the foundations of economic theory derived from observations about the world and reflection on psychology of value by classical political economists, gradually working in a touch of mathematics up through the 1940's approximately, whence Samuelson et al. formalized what had been originally derived intuitively and observationally, as if it descended from logical axioms. That created an atmosphere where say John Nash and Von Neumann made some important contributions. And Arrow and Debreau etc to follow. But economic foundations come from scientific observation, period. To disclaim -- I agree with probably most economists that history of thought scholars get a little out of control and zany -- but it obviously pays to keep them around so young students don't end up saying historically, factually, and theoretically incorrect things. The only thing fungible between mathematics and economic theory are Tek characters. And anyway, OP seems much more concerned (rightly, I think) with the daily environment and career demands of the different fields than about his a priori preferences for the different modes of inquiry, which do seem thus far fungible to him now, but absolutely are not at the professional level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemdas Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 OMG - Please stop wasting which I can imagine is some valued time of yours on this troll So I am torn between two things I love the most. I love economics and everything about it yet I can't seem to step away from the mesmerizing beauty of mathematics. two extremes in one mode strained with the superlative "the most" ?? My dilemma is that there have been things I always wanted to do in life, but some of those desires require sacrifice of others. so far very "well-organized" mini-passage for math nerd For example, I love teaching, I don't why, I just enjoy the thrill and excitement of explaining a concept to someone and that person understanding. Teaching to me gives me happiness and self-worth, but on the other hand I love doing research in economics, and love all the intricate details that come along with it. teaching or lecturing? what had been understood by teaching if the relevant experience would have been obtained? both - teaching and research experiences are present, how about sacrifice of one desire for the other? no sacrifice was made, as both experiences are present ... I guess what I'm trying to say is, what does anyone else think I should do? giving freedom to others and asking their advices I understand that I'll still have to do research in mathematics, which sounds exciting to me, but I would mainly like to get a doctorate in math because I love math and I love sharing math with others. Yet, if I get my Econ PhD, I would want to work for a consulting firm or a statistical think tank that does continuous research within specific areas. The whole Econ Academia life definitely has its pro's, but so does math. Well, if anyone has any advice on how to tackle this problem let me know please. it's clear that the author has no goddamned sense of consulting where the main pillars are deadline and deliverable. the author dreams and invokes some forum members to participate in his dreaming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemdas Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 also check this post by our "great" mathematician http://www.www.urch.com/forums/open/143268-basic-counting-principle.html#post919044 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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