nontrad dreams Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 So, I am a Mac guy by choice but work at work on a PC. I can tolerate windows alright. Thinking of getting a new computer late this year and wondered about this question. STATA seems just fine on a Mac, but excel kind of sucks. It is lacking all the statistical analysis add-on stuff and you have to go third party to kind of kludge it back on there (at least that was the status about a year ago). What else? I'm not trying to open an "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" flame off, just curious for opinions from those who have had any cross platform experiences doing grad school. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmedEcon Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I doubt that you'll do much in Excel other than some occasional data cleaning. Certainly not any sort of statistical analysis, I wouldn't think. I think an $800-1200 Lenovo ThinkPad is a much better value than a MacBook. The biggest cross-platform issue that I see at presentations is actually running Powerpoint-type presentations from one platform to another. From what I've observed, Stata is mostly the same on Mac as Windows. There are some other statistical programs that you might want to run that are exclusive to Windows (e.g., AM). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsokrates Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Excel is largely unnecessary at all for empirical work (Gnumeric or LibreOffice will suffice for any miscellaneous spreadsheet needs.) PCs are certainly a better deal for the price, at least in terms of components (Mac build quality is better, usually). If Windows grates on you, installing one of the more user friendly Linux distros (Ubuntu or Mint) is not particularly difficult, and learning Linux is a good skill to have anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeefan Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Absolute BS! All serious statistical analysis takes place on excel. Assuming you want to maximize citation within a certain timeframe (and ultimately become a tenured Harvard professor), your best bet is to run all your regressions on an excel spreadsheet. Also, make sure you "accidentally" forget to drag the cursor all the down and omit the last four rows. That last trick ensures that Paul Ryan will cite your paper in his next budget (trust me, a lot of economists would kill for this). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integral Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) Background: I'm a longtime Windows/Linux user, but every single computer in our department is a Mac. I've had good experiences with both. In my view, the three most important considerations are: 1. Software needs 2. Your personal workflow 3. Cross-computer compatibility Software: The big three software requirements of an economics PhD - LaTeX, Stata, and Matlab - are available for both Windows and Mac machines. As of version 12, Stata runs a nice GUI in both Windows and Mac environments. Matlab runs identically on both platforms. LaTeX has excellent plugins on both. There is really no difference between the two on those fronts. However, Mac has the excellent Papers software for handling your growing PDF collection; Windows has a suite of utility programs that I could not live without (notepad++ in particular). Given that the "big 3" work well cross-platform, you can make the choice based on software you personally cannot live without. Which brings me to... Personal workflow: Some people just work better on Macs. Some work better on Windows machines. Each OS has its own quirks, and I don't think either one is compelling enough that you should switch from the other and pay the cost of learning a new OS's foibles. My workflow is heavily dependent on Notepad++ and Q-dir, both of which are Windows-only. One of my professors is wedded to Mac-specific utility software. It comes down to taste: your productivity is paramount. Compatibility: If the entire department is running Macs, it helps if you have a Mac as well. Support will be better and there is no risk of compatibility issues. Similarly for the Windows case. Give this less weight than the others, but it is there. Note that ThinkPads retain a VGA port, which is immediately compatible with the presentation tools used in most universities; Macs require an adapter. Other issues: You'll probably never open Excel, Word, or PowerPoint during your first year. Word documents become LaTeX markup; Excel spreadsheets turn into Stata data and do-files; PowerPoint presentations become LaTeX/Beamer presentations. (Edit: "never" is too strong, but grant me some artistic license.) It is not immediately obvious to me which platform has better Box/DropBox support - perhaps others can weigh in? Some on this forum swear by their cloud backups. Note that Macbooks will cost more than similarly-specced ThinkPads, HPs or Dells. Bottom line: Go with what you're familiar with, as the core software you'll be using will run smoothly on either platform. I personally do not know of any compelling reason to switch from one platform in favor of the other. About half of my classmates use Macs, the other half use Windows. Edited July 17, 2013 by Integral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthxdill Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Background: I'm a longtime Windows/LInux user, but every single computer in our department is a Mac. I've had good experiences with both. In my view, the three most important considerations are: 1. Software needs 2. Your personal workflow 3. Cross-computer compatibility Software: The big three software requirements of an economics PhD - LaTeX, Stata, and Matlab - are available for both Windows and Mac machines. As of version 12, Stata runs a nice GUI in both Windows and Mac environments. Matlab runs identically on both platforms. LaTeX has excellent plugins on both. There is really no difference between the two on those fronts. However, Mac has the excellent Papers software for handling your growing PDF collection; Windows has a suite of utility programs that I could not live without (notepad++ in particular). Given that the "big 3" work well cross-platform, you can make the choice based on software you personally cannot live without. Which brings me to... Personal workflow: Some people just work better on Macs. Some work better on Windows machines. Each OS has its own quirks, and I don't think either one is compelling enough that you should switch from the other and pay the cost of learning a new OS's foibles. My workflow is heavily dependent on Notepad++ and Q-dir, both of which are Windows-only. One of my professors is wedded to Mac-specific utility software. It comes down to taste: your productivity is paramount. Compatibility: If the entire department is running Macs, it helps if you have a Mac as well. Support will be better and there is no risk of compatibility issues. Similarly for the Windows case. Give this less weight than the others, but it is there. Note that ThinkPads retain a VGA port, which is immediately compatible with the presentation tools used in most universities; Macs require an adapter. Other issues: You'll probably never open Excel, Word, or PowerPoint during your first year. Word documents become LaTeX markup; Excel spreadsheets turn into Stata data and do-files; PowerPoint presentations become LaTeX/Beamer presentations. It is not immediately obvious to me which platform has better Box/DropBox support - perhaps others can weigh in? Some on this forum swear by their cloud backups. Note that Macbooks will cost more than similarly-specced ThinkPads, HPs or Dells. Bottom line: Go with what you're familiar with, as the core software you'll be using will run smoothly on either platform. I personally do not know of any compelling reason to switch from one platform in favor of the other. About half of my classmates use Macs, the other half use Windows. I mostly endorse what integral says above, and I just want to add my mac-user perspective. In Lieu of Windows-only NotePad++ I use TextMate. TextMate is comparable in utility and flexibility, IMO, but it isn't free unless you pirate it. The commonly used text editor for Mac, TextWrangler, is mediocre. Finally, Papers is now available on Windows and Linux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nontrad dreams Posted July 17, 2013 Author Share Posted July 17, 2013 Thanks all. Whether you are doing heavy number crunching or not, while working as an RA on a couple of legit research gigs as an undergrad I certainly did a LOT of data collection and assembly with Excel. Much of the functionality in the windows version with respect to quickie analysis, etc is very useful and seems a lot better than having to keep moving data into STATA while collection is still in progress. (I did appreciate the Reinhardt spreadsheet ref though!) One consideration based on me running office apps on a 3-year old MacBook Air (with admittedly light RAM) is that these Microsoft apps seem to REALLY bog down the computer in a way that (at least unscientifically) doesn't seem to happen on a PC. So they don't care about efficient coding for Mac OS, go figure, right? I am taking a mathematical writing course in my final UG semester, so hopefully I will develop some experience with LaTex prefs shortly. Will have to check out those other apps y'all mentioned. cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRod Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Thanks all. Whether you are doing heavy number crunching or not, while working as an RA on a couple of legit research gigs as an undergrad I certainly did a LOT of data collection and assembly with Excel. Much of the functionality in the windows version with respect to quickie analysis, etc is very useful and seems a lot better than having to keep moving data into STATA while collection is still in progress. (I did appreciate the Reinhardt spreadsheet ref though!) One consideration based on me running office apps on a 3-year old MacBook Air (with admittedly light RAM) is that these Microsoft apps seem to REALLY bog down the computer in a way that (at least unscientifically) doesn't seem to happen on a PC. So they don't care about efficient coding for Mac OS, go figure, right? I am taking a mathematical writing course in my final UG semester, so hopefully I will develop some experience with LaTex prefs shortly. Will have to check out those other apps y'all mentioned. cheers! Give LibreOffice a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipfilet Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I've always used a Mac and it worked fine for me. I have Latex, Matlab, etc.. The only thing I miss with respect to windows is Winedt - if anyone knows of any Mac equivalent please let me know (I use Texshop in the Mac, it does what I want but it's not as userfriendly as Winedt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonSwanson Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I use both. My main gripe with Mac is that it's impossible to upgrade most of the components which ensures that you'll have to buy an entirely new machine. I used to hate WIndows as an OS but it has greatly improved, currently using 7 and really love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonSwanson Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Here's a question: My Macbook is slowly biting the dust. What should I replace it with? I have a strong desire to go the tablet route for portable computing but I'm not sure how practical it is. I've read some EMJR articles on using Stata and LaTex on an iPad (I think via remote computing??), but the feedback all seems mixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeefan Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Here's a question: My Macbook is slowly biting the dust. What should I replace it with? I have a strong desire to go the tablet route for portable computing but I'm not sure how practical it is. I've read some EMJR articles on using Stata and LaTex on an iPad (I think via remote computing??), but the feedback all seems mixed. EJMR has a peer-reviewed journal? God I shiver to know who is on the editorial board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonSwanson Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 WHoops, meant threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmedEcon Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 You can do pretty much everything on iPad via Remote Desktop. But it's really not efficient, IMHO. And RDC's can consume a non-trivial amount of data if you're using a 4G plan, so unless you're on wifi doing so for any length of time strikes me as rather foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsokrates Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Here's a question: My Macbook is slowly biting the dust. What should I replace it with? I have a strong desire to go the tablet route for portable computing but I'm not sure how practical it is. I've read some EMJR articles on using Stata and LaTex on an iPad (I think via remote computing??), but the feedback all seems mixed. I've got an android tablet (Kindle Fire hd rooted with bloatware removed and a custom launcher) that I use for reading comic books, reading (and occasionally annotating, although I'm real bad at remembering to do that) pdf articles for research, ebook reading for pleasure sometimes (although I've got an ancient e-ink Kindle for that, too), and light internetting when I'm on the couch watching TV shows with the wife. I've used it to ssh into the cluster at UO and run an R-script exactly once, and I've never used it otherwise for serious computing. Maybe if I had a keyboard dock I would, but even then, I can't imagine being very efficient over a remote desktop. Its a nice toy, and for the price (~250) its marginally worth it, but its not really a substitute for a laptop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsokrates Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 EJMR has a peer-reviewed journal? God I shiver to know who is on the editorial board. Nothing but 6'4" nordic bros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catrina Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 EJMR has a peer-reviewed journal? God I shiver to know who is on the editorial board. EJMR Journal « Economics Job Market Rumors Regarding computing, I am really happy with my current arrangement. I have a 14" thinkpad and also got an iPad for taking notes on. This provides both more flexibility and more computing power than getting a tablet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integral Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 EJMR has a peer-reviewed journal? God I shiver to know who is on the editorial board. On the bright side, refereeing is guaranteed to be double- or even triple-blind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonSwanson Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Best post in that thread: Economics Journal of Monetary Research (EJMR) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nontrad dreams Posted July 18, 2013 Author Share Posted July 18, 2013 EJMR Journal « Economics Job Market Rumors Regarding computing, I am really happy with my current arrangement. I have a 14" thinkpad and also got an iPad for taking notes on. This provides both more flexibility and more computing power than getting a tablet. I second the usefulness of an iPad generally for school! I have been taking notes for classes on mine for a few semesters using this "Notes Plus" app and it is great. Very legible results with a stylus and a little acclimation, has graph paper setting, multi-colors, exports to PDF, which is great for doing HW and then still having a copy after you turn it in (this has kept me from having to reinvent the wheel/figure something out that I did two days before from scratch, etc numerous times). Also it backs up to DropBox any time there is an internet connection. There is a built-in recording feature for profs who don't mind, but I usually just use the iPads recorder since it uses less space (records in a lossy codec format instead of WAV). Also, you can import PDFs and mark them up if you have a class where the prof uses a bunch of PP slides, etc. That and the "Documents" app, a pretty full featured PDF manager with the ability to highlight, add notes, organize in folders, etc. is a pretty great daily setup. As far as doing real computing remotely, I tried the Windows online app thing on the iPad when I had a math course with some Pearson app that was online, but it is REAL dependent on a good internet connection. The desktop display view even totally falls apart if the connection is sketchy, it is essentially a teleconference with a computer so I personally would not consider substitution an option. Also there is an app for iPad called Air Display that allows you to use iPad as a wireless display extension. I have been doing some manual data collection from several hundred online PDFs and this is so nice since I can queue up the PDF on the remote display and just keep entering data rather than tabbing between apps each entry, etc. (I am not, nor am I related to, an Apple employee. Actually a skeptical supporter, but the pad is handy.) Will probably end up getting some PC ultrabook when I go to another computer and just keep my slightly out of date Air as a backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmedEcon Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I have a Lenovo T530 (15.3" laptop) and a current generation iPad. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to snag one of these next month: Lenovo ThinkVision LT1421 Monitor Review | External Monitor Reviews | LAPTOP Reviews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRod Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I really enjoy SublimeText. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowLearner38 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I really enjoy SublimeText. Love SublimeText. It's so pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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