Reapply after being kicked out

[Mr Euro]

Hi everyone,

I'm asking you for your advice because I am in serious trouble and I don't know what to do. Last year I started my Econ PhD at a top 30 department, and well...it went terribly; I failed ALL my first year core exams. Now I am asked to leave the program (they didn't even allow me a resit). ... :(

 

Everyone is telling me now that I 'should try business for a change'. That is very kind, but the thing is that I really want to become a researcher. Of course, I can become a researcher without a PhD, but I don't think people will take me serious, or as serious as someone with a PhD. So I still want to get the PhD.

 

Now the problem is what to do. The first thing is that I need to decide what programs I could aim for.... and here I am extremely worried. WHO WOULD WANT TO ACCEPT A PHD DROP OUT IN THEIR PROGRAM? Clearly top 30 is out of the question, top 100 even? (... top 200?? top 100000?????) :'(. So what would you guys/girls advice me?

 

The second problem is when to apply. I already lost a year, and I don't want to lose another (also because my external funding would probably not allow me to), so preferably I would like to start again directly in September. But of course, all regular deadlines for Fall admission are all way passed. But on the other hand, people have transfers, and I wonder if I can do the same; although my case would be more like a negative transfer :'(

 

If this Fall is not possible, I wonder if there are any good programs that accept Spring admissions. I believe it is extremely rare, but anyway...do you know any??

 

That's it. Already a long message. Sorry for that. But I hope you can help me here.

 

Many thanks in advance.

[economicus]

What was the reason for these bad results? Personal/health problems (?), too hard material(?), unseriousness (?).... Now, this is very important...as your explanation for this in your SOP will matter a lot.

[Nalfien]

Since you have external funding there are still a few places that will consider you for thier programs. The places you would be looking at have deadlines for financial aid but not necessarily for admission. What you could do is at this point just go anywhere you can next year and then seriously reapply to a number of schools. After taking the core courses once and possibly twice if you start another program this year you should be more than ready to go the third time around.

 

I'm starting to feel like Stony Brook should be paying me for all my advertisments but it is def a place you might want to consider for your interm year and if you like it you can stick around...

 

http://www.sunysb.edu/economics/graduate/admission/#deadline

 

good luck

[kkitkat]

Wow, sorry your first year didn't work out so well for you.

 

I don't think transferring is a viable option if you want to start school again this fall. As far as I know the process of transferring works in exactly the same way as the process of applying. You have to send all your transcripts, LORs etc by the deadline. However, would you consider PhD programs outside of US? Australian schools start in February I think and their deadlines are in August. They are not highly ranked, but I think they're still pretty good programs. I'm not sure how competitive they are in terms of getting in, but I think it's worth checking out.

 

As for your chances of getting admitted to any program... well I think it's going to be hard, but I'm an optimistic person. First year is very hard (as you well know) and someone who didn't expect it can get into trouble. So maybe in your SOP you could explain why is it that you failed and then you could say that now, when you have an idea what it's like and you know what to expect you can do so much better. Do you think that maybe one of your profs would be willing to give you a reference letter saying that he still thinks you can do well?

 

Also, maybe try talking to your profs (if they are approachable) and see what they think your options and chances of getting into another program are.

 

I hope this makes sense to you and I hope everything works out the way you want it to. Good luck!

 

edit: Just read Nalfien's post and he's right, the deadlines are more for funding so ignore the first part of my post.

[apropos]

There was a guy on this forum who had not done well during his first year in 2005-2006 year at MSU. This year he will be entering GWU, probably without funding. He was rejected from places like IUB, TAMU, Purdue, Cornell, Syracuse, etc. Of course the sample is still too small to be able to speculate whether a typical re-applicant should be able to do about the same, worse, or better than him.

 

Regarding getting started in September, I wouldn't count on that, at least in the united states. Perhaps some new, obscure doctoral program would allow that but I haven't heard of such things. You might find a masters program that you can still apply to (likely at some regional university..).

 

By the way, is there a specific reason that you didn't pass the tests? If this had to do with a weak math preparation, perhaps you could work on that before reapplying?

[buckykatt]

I do recall reading about at least one US econ Ph.D. program (sorry, don't remember which one, but not a highly-ranked program) that accepts applications (for admission, not funding) anytime. Since you have external funding, maybe that would work for you?

 

But, will your funding pay for study at the master's level instead? Maybe that would be a better way to work on your weaknesses before tackling the Ph.D.? Most MA programs let you take some electives outside the department, which would give you a chance to work on your math, if that's what's holding you back.

[YoungEconomist]

I'm sorry to hear that. If I was in your shoes I think I would take this year off, enjoy myself and recover. That means do whatever you like to do, whether it's vacation, working, hanging out with friends/family, or getting drunk.;)

 

Start filling out some applications next year and give it another try. I'm sure some programs would still love to have you, even though I'm not sure how highly these programs will be ranked. You had a good enough profile to get into a top 30 program in the first place, and you had to learn some stuff from the program which should make it easier the 2nd time around. It would seem that programs ranked around 100th in the USA would probably give you a shot.

 

I imagine you're going to have to explain to the adcoms what happened. Whether it's because you were just over your head in that particular program or had some personal issues going on, just be sure to explain yourself and let them know what happened.

 

I would also go talk to some of the professors from the program that you were kicked out of, and discuss your situation with them. Maybe you can even get some LORs saying that the professor(s) thinks you would do well in another program.

[Mr Euro]

Hi all,

I see this is a very active forum. Many thanks for all the advice.

 

I hadn't thought of the Australian option---thanks for letting me know---but I don't think that it will work for me; the funding that I receive is for the U.S. only. So I am going to request a year off at my sponsor and apply again for grad school next year. Judging on your replies admission around or below top 100 should be feasible.

 

... or maybe I should apply even later (forget the funding for a moment)... I was thinking...from my undergraduate study I still have two papers that my undergraduate advisor would like to work on to co-author and publish with me. We haven't submitted anything yet though, and I know this publication process can take years in economics. But still, I was wondering if a publication might help.

 

So let me add two questions to the ones I already made:

- How much do publications help in getting accepted at grad school? Suppose I get an Econometrica with my co-author...Would that mean that Chicago/Harvard/Yale/ would be able to consider me again, even though I am kicked out earlier (how unlikely this may seem)? :)

- Do you think it is worth waiting >1 year such that I can have the publications on my CV (not necessarily Econometrica, of course :))?

 

Many thanks again for your help.

[buckykatt]

Publishing in a good journal would certainly improve your chances when you reapply; but if I were on an adcom looking at your application the first question I'd be asking is, what kept this student from succeeding the first time and what have they done to address the problem?

[asquare]

I think buckykatt is right. An adcom has two basic questions about any applicant: will this person do good research, and can he pass the first year classes/exams? A "yes" to each question is a necessary condition for being accepted. Publishing in a good journal would give very strong "yes" to the first question, but does nothing for the second.