choices are bad (economics overestimates the utility of choice)

[saikatchattopadhyay]

hello i am SC from calcutta(actually a bucolic town nearby named durgapur) INDIA. my profile is as follows:

 

class X 91.6 % from icse board(top 2% amongst 100000 candidates)

class XII 87.5 % from isc board ( top 5%)

college/university: national institute of technology,durgapur,india

department: mechanical engg.

cgpa- 7.51 (i will be ranked maybe 45 in a class of 100)

 

while studying mech engg i also was simultaneously studying bsc economics by correspondence from univ of london,external programme( there are around 30,000 ppl around the world doing this)

my marks in that are about 60 %( i already have a 2:1 by the univ regulations with 3 papers to spare) and by next year 2009 may(that will be my final year for that course too) i hope to get a first class honours. however my results for this year were very bad.(microecon 34!! just scraped thru)

 

gre- taken on 1st sept 2008. 800 quant 650 verbal awaiting awa

 

internship: 1)mahindra and mahindra(automoblie company about production engg)

 

project

1 project on mathematical modeling from CMERI,durgapur; which i hope will be published in a journal.

1 project on statistical modelling from a bank (risk/actuary related)

 

extra curriculars: not much to mention here

 

i was initially thinking of applying to uk for economics/finance courses. however after my dismal results in that correspondence thing, i am thinking of applying to industrial engineering in us. what are my chances in getting through a top 20 univ in us or lse/oxford/edinburg/warwick etc with my background.

 

another option i have is to work for 1 year and then apply for fall 2010. for finance/economics. i think the work ex will count in my favour since i dont have that good a cgpa. basically i really want to pursue econ related subject, but because my grades are very low this year i am having to drop that option.

 

i am REALLY CONFUSED for the past few days about what to do.could anone please advise me on my approach from here on?

i will be really grateful if you(the reader) could render your valuable comments about whether applying to us for industrial will be good or working for a year and then applying to uk in finance/econ.and as i realised a few days ago i am really bad at taking decisions.

please help

SC

india

Edited February 28, 2011 by asquare
removed name

[asianeconomist]

Are you intending to do a PhD or Masters ?

 

P.S. It's always a good idea to not give out your real name in Internet forums.

[savingtheplanet]

One option to consider before the rest is a masters program from the Indian Statistical Institute, or the Delhi School of Economics, or JNU, Delhi. There are earlier threads in this forum about people in a simular situation as you -- some searching should reveal them. My sense is that you really need to beef up your application, but I don't know too much about UK-based programs. What are your final goals? A PhD in economics? You will really need to beef up your application to get in to decent phd programs, but a masters at a US / Canadian school may be feasible. Regrettably, these are typically not funded (there are exceptions). Again, search for masters related threads on this forum to get a sense of whats out there.

[saikatchattopadhyay]

thank your for your comments..

to asianeconomist,

i would ideally want to do a masters in econ or finance at present .. then work a few years to pay off the loan i've had to take towards my studies. basically want to do anything that increases my income.

no problem about the name i have no qualms..

to savingtheplanet,

i have thought about the options of jnu,isi,dse long and hard.. the main problem is that the placements are not that great. i am already placed in a company( as a mech engr) and my salary after 2 yrs of working would be much with a econ postgrad from these institutes. as i told asianeconomist , i am really out there to earn more bucks..

 

moreover could any of you tell me the kinds of colleges i would get with my profile? will it be possible to get through lse even for a lower wrung course(like a msc economic history or a msc financial math)?

[Canuckonomist]

thank your for your comments..

...no problem about the name i have no qualms..

 

I think what Asianeconomist meant was that it is against forum rules to post your name. Feel free to check the forum rules, it's in there. The problem with posting your name is that you may be banned from the forum, something none of us want to happen.

 

Also, work experience rarely counts for anything, but research experience does. If you get the chance to research with a professor, or at a think-tank-like organization, it could help you.

 

Cheers,

 

Canuck

[kanishka]

If you want to earn money, you should apply for an MBA, and there are plenty of good places in India for that degree.

 

No point in doing masters from LSE etc if money is your goal.

 

MSc in economic history I can assure you is not going to get you a placement any better than what Dschool or ISI will give you, in fact, it will be worse.

 

I know a number of people who went to England to do a Masters, and they all came back to do their MBA's from Indian institutes. Only two people (out of a total of around 12) managed to find a job after their masters degree, so its not all that easy.

 

I can assure you the job market for MBAs (from a decent university) in India is excellent at the moment.

[asianeconomist]

The previous poster seems to have the benefit of direct observation while formulating his advise. I find nothing to disagree with.

 

I'll only add that probably the only rationale behind going for a foreign Masters would be to continue abroad after your Masters and probably work there till you immigrant/return after 3-5 years. If this is the route that you want to take, then programs in Canada or UK might suit you well. FOr that purpose, I think I would have to agree with a previous poster who advises you to beef up your profile. I don't think that without better grades in Economics courses you'll stand a good chance at CAD/UK Masters programs.

[savingtheplanet]

as kanishka said, dont bother with a masters in economics (from india or elsewhere) if you're pretty sure you dont want a phd, and if your goal is inreasing your income. there are plenty of b-schools for you to apply to for that.

[saikatchattopadhyay]

thanks a lot to your eelymosynary( learnt that word during gre prep) comments and posts.. however the only problem is that this year i have not picked up the CAT form and the last date of submission is already over. i guess i will just have to wait till next year.. about research experience, i have i 1 year research experience. but pertains to mechanical engineering. a part of the work i did during research was computational and numerical analysis.. i have a project on mathematical modelling of a cfb(circulating fliudized bed) and another econometric project where i found a stable money demand function for india in the period (1991-2008).. as such i have some experience..

yes my main objective is to increase my income and i guess i am ready to do a phd if it guarentees me higher levels of income and consumption. yes asian economist got it head on.. my plan is somewhat to migrate and work atleast 10 years abroad and benefit from the favourable exchange rate when i return home..even an iim grad working in india earns less and saves lesser than an average undergrad grad in the us or eu...

what exactly should i do to beef up my profile? i have the following options at present

1) an internship in a national bank for 2-3 months

2) a project at maybee isi,calcutta or bombay univ

 

what do you ppl suggest i do as i have very less time on my hands to improve my profile if i am to apply this year.

 

thanks in advance .. and oh i forgot to read through the rules stating that i am not allowed to write my name so sorry if i broke the rules ..

[Ancalagon The Black]

ISI MSQE has an average starting salary for freshers at INR 10 Lakhs p.a approx. So, unless you are getting around 8-8.5 (or ideally much more) in your present job, I don't think that salary will be too much of an issue. Also, at ISI, people are not really bothered about placements and usually almost 100% of the class finds PhD placements at, generally, well established US/other programs.

 

So, you would be served better by doing your MBA from the IIMs/XLRI. Then, obviously, your starting salary, as a fresher would be around INR 12-14 lakhs.

[Ancalagon The Black]

Oh, sorry, I didn't read your last post. Regarding PhD admissions:

 

1. The UCL External program that you did will not count for much in PhD admissions of any time. (Like it or not, the majority of academicians are, as they say, academic snobs)

 

2. Yes, you can get into top Industrial Engineering programs, maybe with a strong bent towards manufacturing economics? For that, I suggest that you involve yourself in some projects from top Indian institutes as you mention. This would also be beneficial in the way of a LOR.

 

3. Everything else is fine although, if I nitpick, I would say that your CGPA and class rank is a tad low. Maybe you could explain that by saying that you did 2 programs at the same time?

 

4. Include a wide range of programs where you would want to apply to and hope for the best. Don't just restrict yourself to the top 20.

[saikatchattopadhyay]

thanks for your comments.. i guess i will be appearing for the isi exams.. the exams are much easier compared to the bstat exams( which by the way i didnt clear). some of my frnds got thru this year they tell me that its a very good program and is more mathematically oriented.i guess i should apply for industrial engg programs in us this year and if i dont get thru appear for isi,dse,jnu exams

[Ancalagon The Black]

Well, I never gave the BStat or BMath examinations, but for MS, it all seemed pretty Greek and Latin to me. I didn't even understand how they finally took me !! I am not that great a student. :D

[saikatchattopadhyay]

thats great as long as u get thru.. any advise on test prep for isi msqe? which ug college are u from?

[deltasquare]

yes my main objective is to increase my income and i guess i am ready to do a phd if it guarentees me higher levels of income and consumption.

Don't do a PhD for earning money. PhD is done for doing research and publishing papers. Not to earn money. If you seriously analyse the effort & the time spent, you'll realise there is very less money to be made in research for an average joe like you. I'm sure you are not a research-type person just by looking at your education and your priorities.

 

my plan is somewhat to migrate and work atleast 10 years abroad and benefit from the favourable exchange rate when i return home..even an iim grad working in india earns less and saves lesser than an average undergrad grad in the us or eu...

Almost all of the million engineering graduates passing out every year from India will have the same objective.

IIM

CAT isn't an easy exam to crack. Only the top 10% or so from IIM ABC get to work abroad directly after graduation. Prepare to work really really hard if you are aiming to land in a London/NY job after IIM degree.. (I went thro an IIM four years back, hence the advise).. In my opinion you shouldn't try for IIMs now because you don't look like someone who can get placed in ibanks/consultancies post IIM. It will waste years for you.

 

MSc (Fin/Eco) in UK

In my opinion, this is the best course for you now. You can get placed in a decent university and finish the course with a loan. Then you can place yourself around the world and pay off the loan in 4 years or so.. Later you can think about an MBA from the UK/US.

[saikatchattopadhyay]

thanks a lot for the streetsmart advice that deltasquare provided. the problem is what kind of a decent univ i will get thru for fin/eco in uk or the us for that matter.

[kanishka]

An IIM grad earns less and saves lesser than an undergrad in an US or EU university? Eh?

 

Believe me, students in all parts of the world save very little! Esp in the US where most of the students are on loans and/or scholarship. This is not a lot of money.

 

The money in grad school does not even come close to what you get after an MBA.

[saikatchattopadhyay]

i am sorry if i generalised a little. however it can normally be argued that if someone saves even 5% of his income, his savings at the end of a year will be much higher in the us than in india.

i mean, an avg grad in us earns around 50-60k $ so 5% of this is

0.05*50,000*45(the exchange rate)= rs 11,2500

i think an iim grad working in india gets a salary of 15-20 lpa. even if he saves 50% of his salary, he wont match up to the savings ..

moreover with the increase in fee structure in the iims i guess the extra cost to go to us/uk may just be 4-5 lakh rupees

i was just trying to make a point in suppport of my plans to go abroad.

[asianeconomist]

My bad. Should have read more thoroughly.

[saikatchattopadhyay]

if u read carefully thru my observation i allowed a savings rate of 5% in USA and 50% in india. i think my previous post should answer your quiery without much thinking

 

USA: amount saved= 0.05*50,000*45(the exchange rate)= rs 11,2500

INDIA : amount saved=0.50*18,00,000= rs 9,00,000

a graduate can make a profit of 3 lakh rupees every year in comparison to an indian iim grad unless his salary is much higher than what i have estimated.

[Ancalagon The Black]

ISI MSQE basically focuses on 3 things. Macro, Micro and most importantly, Econometrics. On the ISI admissions website, you will find the names of certain books which they have recommended. I strongly suggest learning everything in them as the time given in the exams are too short to think about the answers. You either know it or you don't.

 

I am, as it appears from your given name, from your state. I am from Jadavpur University.

[saikatchattopadhyay]

to Ancalagon The Black,

which year did u pass out? where r u now?