Do the spanish fiscal woes affect funding at spanish schools?

[Gecko]

Thinking of CEMFI, does anyone think whether it might be hit? Thanks~

[kipfilet]

I am not 100% sure but I believe that CEMFI is dependent on the Bank of Spain, not the Government, hence I would consider it relatively safe.

[oleador]

I know that funding at U Autonoma Barcelona (a public school) was partly reduced due to government budget cuts.

[juliep]

At Carlos III where I am, up to now no changes.

 

I know someone who knows someone (ah ah) who is flatmate with CEMFI students so I ll try to know something if I can.

[Gecko]

Thanks all ^_^ . by the way, is the attrition rate at Carlos III on the high side?

[juliep]

arghhh I had made a long answer and it just did not register... After having spent my night over a stupid statistics problem set I offer to answer you tomorrow ;-) Meanwhile please feel free to ask me what you want to know about uc3m, here or by pm!

[Gecko]

thanks juliep! i remember reading previous threads about UC3M being relatively fond of cutting off students after the Masters. is that true?

[juliep]

I’m back! Two days of exams so…

 

Ok, so you want to know about funding and attrition rate at Carlos III? I had also read the past threads about it and got frightened, but still decided to go (well, I had uc3m funded vs Barcelona (ex UPF) not funded + only 25% tuition waiver so…)

 

Ok so consider I am just in the first year, I have 3 months in the program, so I might not have a whole history, but as far as I know: the attrition rate/ cut of funding after the second year is really not a huge problem. Well, you have to study hard, you have what we call quals (= prelims in the states I guess?), and mathematically speaking you have a “high” attrition rate, but is it really people who wanted to stay is the question.

 

Figures are more or less, between 20 and 25 persons in first year, some leave after the first year (I don t know at what point they do cut your funding, I think if you fail more than 2 subjects out of 12, but last year it just happened to one guy who failed everything and decided it was not what he wanted). This year, the number of “leavers” (don’t know how to say it in English? Drop outs?) after first year was higher that usual, like 5 I think, but out of such a small sample it depends of what people want to do. Out of those 5, none was kicked out (well, I guess that the guy who failed everything would have lost the funding though… but he left).

 

Then after second year things are more difficult, because you really enter “PhD path”. Usually, out of the 20-25 first year students (this year we are 21), you have 10+ people staying for PhD. Don t know the exact figures, more than 10 but not much more, depending of the year. So we were wondering if there is an implicit quota, but I don t think so. It is more or less each year the number of people who really wanted to go on with the PhD, who involved themselves and study consequently. Here there is a real title “Masters” after 2 years, it is clear so it is not what adcoms are after, we have thousands of other one year masters that are more like US masters, more professional, and this one is really THE research masters. But though, maybe people can change their mind, or the fact that the programs are “separated” (masters + phd, there are 2 different heads of program) make people wonder more if they want to commit for the PhD. My point is: it is RARE that people really wanting to gon on are kiked out. How rare? Well that s where I lack history, my flatmate’s boyfriend is in the third year and he told me so, though unspecifically. I can speak of this year, 2 guys failed the qual of micro. But one of them had a very good grade on his master’s thesis (the firs two year are classes but in the second you need to produce a masters thesis that is an important part of the cursus, so you really start with research in second year), wanted to go on with macro ( I read your previous post vs failing macro vs failing micro) and the micro “department” decided to allow him to stay. The second ones had failed various subject in the first year + failed the micro qual (and maybe metrics too?) and was not allowed to go on. That’s the only one.

 

Careful, I did not say it was easy; maybe people auto-select themselves and leave when they see they don t have good grades and won t succeed in the quals (not only, I know one that is happy to have funding for an interesting master and that could not happen in his country, and then will go back there, that is one case). There is I reckon a lot of pressure on that but I guess it is to make us study? Rules are: we have 12 subjects the first year (second year is easiest and it is electives + the masters thesis, so challenging courses, used for the quals, are during the first year), 3 by trimestre, 4 trimesters. We have 3 quals, micro, macro, metrics. You need to have an average of B to be able to sit for the quals, I think that is different from the US? This rule is always questioned, people say it is going to be suppressed, but in the end it hasn t been up to now. This is hard I heard, given that most subjects don t give A easily, so if you miss the B, then you have to catch up. And some subjects also give few Bs either, but this is hearsay, I ve just had my first exams ;-) so we ll see (well, one left to go on Thursday, and then, free!). So some people cannot sit for the quals in September (there is no june session) and have to wait until next September, that is, when you are going to start the PhD!!! And if you fail the first time (if you could sit for them the first time), no problem you have a second chance end of second year. You can also have a waiver if you get 3As in the related subject (for instance Micro 1-2-3 for Micro…). Really really rare but well. 3 classes count “less” because they have no qual, Maths I, Maths II, and Game Theory, but they still count in the average.

 

Hope I answered your questions. Waow, I wrote a whole novel, let s hope it will serve for future applicants. I don t know how hard you would find the level coming from the US (especially a top 10), we have here two guys coming from University of Illinois and they say that, on the one hand, up to now, the rhythm is muuuuuuuuch more relaxed, in terms of number of problem sets to deliver, but not in terms of the final exams. But with their 2 previous years at Illinois they are reviewing everything, so if you are motivated, you should not worry too much I guess?

 

Speaking of CEMFI, what were your questions? As I told you the friend of a friend is flatmate with CEMFI guys so I might be able to have hearsays. And if you have other questions don t hesitate.I’m back! Two days of exams so…

[Gecko]

oh my god ^_^ thanks juliep! Can I ask about CEMFI ? The usual questions: 1) attrition rate 2) toughness of courses 3) what happens to those who fail to make it 4) is the stipend enough to survive? 5) how many people get funded 6) number of people who succeed into the phd phase?

[valerdakas]

Hi everyone. This is my first post in this forum, however, I have been visiting it for the past couple of months or so. I am a last year econ undergrad here in Spain, and I will be applying to UC3M among others (UAB and CEMFI). My goal is to eventually get a phd. However, as of today, I am unsure whether I want to do it in the US or here in Spain. One of my professors has "connections" in all three of the universities I mentioned, and he told me my chances of getting a spot at least in one of the three are pretty good :)

 

But before I continue THANK YOU juliep for all the information you provided. I am in a deep state of stress and anxiety (well maybe it aint that bad but it is bad hehe) since I will be taking the GRE and TOEFL in the next couple weeks. Add finals in january and the distress caused by having to go through all the application process. The information you provided has been of utmost usefulness.

 

My question is to you juliep. I have been reading in this forum that UC3M expects its students to stay for the phd program, and would not be happy with students leaving to the US for a phd, once the masters degree at UC3M is completed. I know for a fact this is not the case for UAB and CEMFI (my professor told me). but he knows nothing about UC3M. The fact that their website says nothing about this issue makes hearsay the most reliable source of info. BUT then I read this wonderful post, from a poster that is actually IN the program AND willing to help the younger generations haha.

 

My question is: is this the case? are professors reluctant to send students to the US after the first two years? If that is not the case, what is their placement record (how many students go to the US and to which schools)? I really hope you find the time to reply.

 

THANK YOU

[juliep]

Hi Valerdakas,

 

Fist of all, Gecko, I did not meet the guy yet so I will let you know, anyway applications deadline are after christmas right, out of the states, or am I wrong? (I did not apply to CEMFI)

 

To Valerdakas, regarding going to the states, I will check it, the information I had also came from this forum, stating it was not well seen. I don t know much more but I will ask, in very recent history, nobody has gone to the states (say, last year), someone was speaking about applying this year but not sure if he will. Actually last year, nobody has left to go somewhere else I think, either people decide to go to work or if they do want to do a PhD, they stay here. So clearly, it is not in the culture of the department to do so.

 

But then it does not necessarily mean that the teachers with which you did well or with which you worked will refuse to support you. My intuition would be that if you are one of the best student in his subject, he has no reason to prevent you from doing what you want and not writing you a good letter. So the question is more, how to get to be noticed by the teacher? The level look very heterogenous (we haven't have grades yet so who knows), people coming from undergrad, with more or less abstract math, people already having a master (and event in that the level can be very heterogenous), but people do really look very strong. So "survive", pass the exams, succeed in your qualifiers look doable. To be among the best 2 students of 3 given class (if you want 3 recon letters) might be somehow tricky.

 

I really don t know how it works with UPF (alias BGSE, I am not sure if UAB is the same, because they just merged various stuff into BGSE and I dont know if UAB is part of that), that I think is the one which has the biggest track of sending students to the states, someone of my class come from there he jsut said that they were a lot in the class and people were very very stressed and pressure was high. But still if they do send more students, it might mean they send the best 10 students of the group, out of I dont know maybe 60-70 (not sure about the total number), maybe it s easier?

 

Is it your main goal, transfer to the states, or just an option?

[valerdakas]

Going to the States is just an option. I am not sure what it is I want, and that is the reason I want to know if UC3M doesn't like (or simply "does not take well") that its master's graduates pursue their phds in the States.

 

The UAB program I'm talking about is IDEA (nothing to do with UPF or BGSE). Here's the link IDEA » Home Page . They clearly state they are glad to send students to the States and if you check out the "graduate" section you'll see that their alumni have gone on to study in several schools in the States. They list where ALL their graduates have ended up. Most of them continued with the phd, and many years they have sent no one abroad. I'm assuming that the reason is simply because no one chose to. I would like to know if that is the case in UC3M (they sent nobody to the States because nobody chose to) or if it is their policy not to send them abroad.

 

About the BGSE program, it is only one year long and as of now I believe I am more interested in a two year program. But again the program is so good I might change my mind. Decision making is such a hard process! Specially when your future's at stake!

 

So, if you find out anything, please let us know, as I (and I'm sure anyone who might be reading this) would very much appreciate it!

Edited November 29, 2011 by valerdakas
none = no one

[juliep]

ok, I ll check for UC3m if I find more

 

Ideas, I checked it VERY QUICKLY so I may be wrong, I just checke the PhD placement and I think it is not that good, not a lot of "relatively famous" name, at least in EUrope, I know the context is difficult, and I saw 2 Carlos III that draw my attention because I could not see those names in the teacher directory here, and actually they are jsut visiting teacher, not tenure track, so I don t know at what point this is good, and it might be the case for any of the other placement registered on the page. So if you re not sure about going to the states, keep the option of staying in the best terminal program you can?

 

BGSE, no, this is not one year, well yes, but there is the MAS after the first year, another master, it is like the second year of people going on for the PhD there or wanting to apply to the States as well, as it is too soon to apply in December of the first year, you have no grades, no LOR ususally. But apply EARLY as they are very bad at funding, this costs 12k a year, applying in March I just got a 25% tuition waiver, maybe it was my profile, but I think it was everybody in the result thread also at that time of the year, and very few TA (that would give you extra money) is given (maybe easier as you speak spanish but still i think the few TAs are given very early). COmpared with the 100% tuition waiver of carlos III and the scholarship we receive... Well depending if fuinding is an issue for you. But BGSE is definetely a great great program.

[valerdakas]

From what I know the UAB program is actually very good. It is very well known and it has a very good reputation, especially in microecon. couple years back they sent a student to MIT. And from what I heard almost all students get some kind of financial help, which is a big issue for me.

 

And funding is obviously one of the big UC3M pros (apart from its reputation, brand name etc).

 

As for BGSE sure I could give it a shot, but I really can't afford to go there unless I get at the very least a free ride, given that there are other programs out there that offer tuition+stipend. And from what I heard (from you and others) is that funding at BGSE aint as good as it could be, so I am aware that chances are very slim... thus my reservations about BGSE.

 

Anyways hope you find out about UC3M and share it with us, I would really appreciate it

[Gecko]

Hi Juliep, the deadline is actually Feb so no rush on your side. Greatly appreciate the help!