banzailizard

Looking into the journals will have to wait until this weekend when I am not burned out from work. I might as well take the drive to be somewhere free of distractions while I skim. JOP = Journal of Politics and AJPS = American Journal of Political Science correct? What should happen if I find I am equally interested in all topics though? A related matter perhaps someone can answer is how specialized does one need to be in a given PhD field, I generally prefer fields that have less narrow specialization, hence my undergraduate choices of majors. That is not to say I want to be broad and shallow but that I do not want to have a single topic that defines my career. I am not sure I entirely understand what your point is regarding the "inclination vs experience" debate. The reference to scores on the GRE actually are making it less clear to me. An absolute score of 167 or higher indicating aptitude I follow, but why the reference to the relative comparison to the verbal score (it suggest that these two skill sets are inversely related at least at the extremes). This is not critically important, just a point of confusion I would like clarity on. At any rate from what I have read of what you and others have posted though, it is effectively that just because I have an inclination towards the sort of math I have been exposed to I should not assume I have an inclination towards the sort of mathematics used in contemporary economics. In being unfocused in my undergraduate goals, I dug myself into a hole where I am not likely to be considered for any serious programs. Furthermore any fixes to my lack of formal mathematics background are both monetarily and temporally expensive to pursue (that is to say a masters). Finally because of the aforementioned ignorance I may value that expense differently if I were to have full knowledge and might not have then pursued the degree. While I understand the first point, I am not seeing a solution to testing my aptitude to learning the mathematics of contemporary economics expect by direct exposure. That would suggest I should continue on my present course of attempting to teach myself this math, and perhaps taking cheep supplementary courses either online or at a community college to gauge aptitude. The cost of a masters degree is less significant when I would be required to acquire one to be competitive for most other PhD's anyways. Unless I misunderstand you and you are suggesting that I have effectively lost my window of opportunity entirely? I apologize if I am coming off as defensive or ungrateful for the advice offered, as that is not my intent. I am just extremely wary of closing an option until I have data to inform that decision, and until I have a solid option to replace it with (I can be very risk adverse, so a mediocre option is preferable to an unknown). I will need to put significant research into these other areas of social science to see if any of them seem relevant to my interest (as well as relevant job prospects). I wish I had started this process on graduation or during college rather than now, as I worry that all of my skills are atrophying and that my window of opportunity for a career is closing.

This seems like a practical suggestion and I will try. However as I am no longer a student so I do not have access to journals for free. I will need to drive to the nearest university that might have access (its a state school so I'd imagine they need to provide some level of public use). Not an odyssey by any means, it is an hour to an hour and a half drive away, but I should plan to make a day of it.

I sent you a PM, but I would appreciate the PDF. It would be good to get an idea of what is involved. I will have to look into this further. Business schools are not an option I had considered. I dismissed them as slightly too practical (that is to say that any reserch I do would have to have a marketable value rather than being for its own sake). Still as a back up strategic planning might be interesting. I am not sure what you mean by referring them? Is that an offer at an introduction or a link to papers they have written? Mostly just curious, I am here for any and all help I can get. For that reason the former might also be more helpful. I only really developed a continuing relationship with economics faculty and so am a bit lost on the history application process. I am fairly certain that a masters is required but I would like to know if that is the case for sure. What is modern economics focused on then that is so mathematically based? In order to fully rule it out I would also like some indication of what I am passing on. As you indicated previously, I am ignorant of what is being published. I wish to firmly rule it out and not be left wondering if I made a correct decision for a career path that could take as much ad 7-9 years to finish. As I said my lack of mathematics background is mostly due to not knowing what I wanted to do, or that this was even needed. In short because I missed the window of opportunity, rather than due to inclination.

Originally I was not going to bump up this post. The subscription notification took a while to reach me (3 days) and I figured it was best not to bump up a thread where I was getting consistent advice. However, since starting the graduate school process, and more specifically poking around on this forum, I have begun to feel a sense of existential angst. This is not so much in my eventual goals but in my prospect of achieving them. This post might be more appropriate in a general sub forum. As such I am looking to ask a new question related to this thread. I would like to work as a tenure track faculty eventually after completing a PhD. Right now my options seem to be: Pursue a masters in econ/math to make up for deficiencies; Try to secure a research assistant position (not mutually executive with 1); Switch fields to a (supposedly) less competitive one, but with the prospect of entering a more prestigious institution. (History, Public Policy, and Political Science were recommended.); and Give up and pick a different career path (no one in particular implied it; it is just a default option). While I have some understanding of the costs involved in each option, I have little reliable (quantitative) data to help make a decision here. Generally speaking yes my interests are more broadly academic and multi disciplined than straight economics. That being said there is a reason Econ was my first choice. Some topics I am interested in for example would be developmental economics in the early modern period of history (possibly latter but not much more so than the early 20th century), impact of historical technological change, the Social Structure of Accumulation theory and indeed comparative economic systems, the history of economic thought, intertemporal choice in human capital investment decisions, intertemporal choice just in general especially over long time horizons with significant uncertainty, etc. I am aware that these interests might change over time as I pursue a degree; they merely represent a starting point. From my research so far there are two points I continue to run across: All else being equal prestige of an intuition has a strong correlation with eventual placement. This is across all disciplines. The top universities in all disciplines fill most of the best openings and the effect cascades down, with lower ranked universities filling progressively lower spots. This is not the only factor of course but given that the committees that make these decisions have little information to go on, they give significant weight to pedigree. Particularly in the humanities, there is both a contraction in the supply of positions available, and an expansion in the number of graduates. This has been significantly aggravated by funding reductions post financial crisis. The first suggests attempting an field that is easier to enter and can result in a higher ranking school might be better, the second implies the opposite, or at least that it is not as viable of a path. However, most of this data is from a mixture of journalism on the subject (possibly biased towards sensationalism), anecdotal evidence (clearly not enough), and reports from a handful of institutions such as the American History Association, American Social Sciences Association, and American Economic Association (these organizations are probably the best set of sources on this list, but based mostly on very broad measures of job openings year over year without much context or analysis. Unsurprisingly the AEA has the best set of studies and information). I am looking for some kind of more specific and systemic studies, articles, data sets, anything, to begin to critically evaluate my options. I am trying of determine: What are my prospects of landing a stable academic job for each field? What are attrition rates like in each field? What is the present funding situation in each field? (easier funding is better as it allows for less time writing grant requests and more time working) Which has the best return on investment? (Least risk, lowest cost, strongest alternative options if an academic job is not possible) how large is the gap in returns between different fields? Assuming I went for a master in econ would that significantly improve or only marginally improve my prospects of getting into a highly ranked program? Most of the other PhD fields require a masters anyways so the relative cost in terms of time is less of a concern. What other job opportunities are there which allow for me to engage in individual and self directed research? (preferably without much regard to practical application) Do any of these require lower costs which might make them an attractive alternative? If I did pick an alternative it would likely be history. I am not inclined towards political science. Public policy could be interesting but seems like it might be tied up actual politics, of which I have no interest. My concerns therein are the aforementioned job market contraction, and the fact that history offers less of a plan B should academia not be feasible.

I am interested in taking these courses in their own right. I will likely continue to take courses online; they are relatively cheep and worst case I learn the math so I will get A's when I take the courses in a more standard place. I will look into the potential of a funded masters though! That is excellent news to learn.

I do appreciate the candor of your advice. I have 7 application all only awaiting my statement of purpose so I will likely finish those. This is mostly because it would be rude to have asked my professors for LOR then not followed through on my end. I will immediately start looking into RA ship though. What are generally good souses for those? Should I just be looking around at universities in my area? I do not have the funds to relocate at present, but am at least in the greater NYC area which has a number of good research universities and the Federal Reserve both in Philly and NYC. I looked at the masters programs. The going rate seems to be between 25k and 30 k per semester, or 100k to 120k in total, added to which is room and board. The time I am willing to expend, it will be spent doing something interesting at least. However, financially that is quite an expense. It would necessitate more student loans just as I paid off my current set and am looking to become independent. I will also need to leave my current job which sucks up 50-60 hours a week but is a souse of income to pay said loans. (I was looking to have the next step lined up and quite without burning any bridges there, but that seems difficult now). While I know it is an investment which could increase my earning potential it is still a difficult decision to make. I will probably attempt to become an RA at a quality institution first and see if I can take classes on the side from there.

A masters might be an option. I do have a few concerns from research I have done: 1. They are focused on business not preparation for PhD's. 2. Cost. 3. Time - I would like to start an actual career at some point. Are there programs which focus specifically on preparation for PhD's to provide the math background I need? I am not sure how well I can turn around the application process I have already started to aim at a masters on short notice.

No I am not taking the courses at the same place I took my undergraduate courses. My school, despite being a state school, was small (~7,000 students). It does not have much offered online, and what it does have are mixed online and in person courses. That is not feasible on my current schedule since most courses were offered mid day. There is a highly limited selection of comprehensive online only programs in mathematics out there (far more professional MBA's). I have been taking them from Southern New Hampshire University, which is ok at best in rankings (low-mid). Should I assume from your response that I would need to get into a top 30 program to achieve my goals? What would be the best way to remedy my math background short of going back to school full time?

I will start with a disclaimer that I know my profile is mediocre at best. I am looking mostly for honesty, and guidance on what I should be doing and where I should be looking. My application is in general last minute and rushed. I did not appreciate the timetable on this sort of thing, but I am worried my skills might atrophy to irrelevance if I wait much longer. PROFILE: Type of Undergrad: Top15 State school, not sure where it is in overall rankings. Graduated in 2013 Double Major, Economics and History Undergrad GPA: 3.594 GRE: 162Q, 169V, AW: (still outstanding I previously had a 4.5) Math Courses: Statistics, Business Statistics (same thing but with SAS and STATA), Econometrics, Calc 1. Taken subsequently online: Calc 1 (again), Calc 2, Discrete math. Plan to take online: Calc 3, Linear Algebra, Real Analysis, but unfortunately after applications are submitted. (Taking these regardless of graduate school prospects, mostly for my sanity of having an intellectual challenge as work is too banal) Econ Courses: Intro courses, Intermediate Micro, Intermediate Macro, Development Economics, Labor Economics, Finance Money and Banking, History of Economic Thought, Transition Economics (From Communism to Market Economies), Federal Reserve Challenge. Letters of Recommendation: Three professors from my undergraduate institution all do conduct research but none are particularly well renowned. Good relations with all of them, did well in all the classes I took with them, two actively encouraged me to look into academia. Research Experience: Limited to undergraduate senior thesis. I did create my own data set from historical souses if that counts for anything. Interests: Historical Economics, Development Economics, Behavior Economics, Labor Economics. My background: Basically I left undergrad about 70% sure I wanted to return to academia. Since I was not 100% sure, I have been working in the private sector at a law firm to pay off student loan debt. I have reached the conclusion that I do want to return, but I have found very little advice on my sort of situation. Most advice is geared towards current undergraduates. I do not believe I am bound for a top 10 program or a high level research position which is fine. I would like suggestions on the best way to go back to get the skills to try and get into that sort of program for someone contemplating a return to academia. I enjoy math, just never had the time to take it. Either way, I mostly just want the intellectual freedom, skills, and access to information that an academic position would allow for. So my questions are as follows: Does anything in my profile suggest I will be able to get into a good enough programs to subsequently receive any form of academic position? If yes I am interested in managing costs. How wide a net should I be casting for my applications? Currently I am aiming at applying to 15-20 programs. I can find plenty of information on general rankings, and especially on top ranked programs, but there is substantially less on mid ranked programs, or rankings broken out by specialty. Are there any vibrant programs in the areas I am interested in, in schools where I have a shot at getting in? I am not as of yet willing/able to just straight up leave my current job. That does make it difficult to acquire the kinds of math background I need outside of internet based courses. My hours are too long and variable to allow me to take even night courses. Backup plan is currently to still apply to some schools (mostly because my professors have already agreed to complete LOR and my pulling out now might burn bridges I need), but otherwise look at RA positions to get more practical background that I need.