2015 PhD Business Administration Admissions/Waiting/Sweating thread

[tradingplaces]

Even Marxist countries had meritocracy ranking in the form of allocation of outperformers to science or athletic schools.

 

Anyone who gets an offer has a right to exercise their time constraints to make a proper decision over someone on the waitlist who was simply not as qualified or desired as the one who got an offer.

 

At a certain point, with extended bad behavior, their reputation will suffer. Someone on the waitlist, been there already. Everyone goes through hair-pulling difficult choices during this time of the year, in a year you will be in a much different place so all you can do is let the market clear and perhaps improve your own candidacy in the meantime if you are on the waitlist. Who knows, maybe taking the GMAT in a few days will help.

[elzy2015]

Well this became a lot more aggressive than I expected in very short order.

 

Not that I feel I necessarily have to defend myself here, BUT - I am leaning towards one offer after a significant period of leaning toward the other. Both have strengths, and for about a week I have been leaning towards School 2 instead of School 1. I have sent e-mails to students at School 1 to get a better feel for the program but haven't heard back.

 

Literally everyone in the real world is telling me to wait until April 15 and I came to this message board for information that would help me clarify my own feelings that it might be unfair - specifically if people would LOSE offers if I waited until near that date. If Waitlist School 3 comes through I will no doubt accept the day of and reject the other two regardless of what day it is.

 

Clearly some people have very personal feeling in this and I recommend you take a deep breath before so vehemently attacking an anonymous person on the internet asking a question for the express purpose of wanting to make sure they aren't hurting someone else unduly.

 

Obviously everyone would be better off if I went ahead and decided right now, but then I might be sacrificing my future for the comfort of someone else, which I think I'm in my rights to not do. Once I am certain that I'm not doing that, then I will act.

 

Thanks to those who gave proper advice. To be clear, the deciding factors between School 1 and School 2 is a slight rankings advantage to School 2 and better research fit (which I'm leaning toward), versus better location and significantly better stipend at School 1.

[Wannabeaphd2]

There was nothing personal on what I wrote. It is not towards you but to the general idea of holding on the offers for longer than needed. By the way, for the guy/gal implying I have self-serving motives, my process is over, I am not waiting for anything.

 

I think we can agree to disagree. I am not here to pick a fight. Everybody has a right on what to say, and what to think. I respect other people`s opinion.

[wittmic]

...but this is how it looks from our end.

 

To clarify, this is not the view of everyone here. I, in fact, disagree with about everything levycyrus wrote.

 

To those will multiple offers: If you are really undecided, please take your time. This is not selfish, this is your training, your career, and in the end, your life. Don't let somebody hide behind a screen name and coerce you into make a rash decision. Best of luck!

Edited April 1, 2015 by wittmic

[tm_associate]

I believe there has been mis-communications with regard to each discussants intentions in the past few threads.... Please try to refrain from using remarks that may come off as 'attacks' on the individual... tailor your advice / experiences more broadly and be nice to other members.

 

 

If I see further posts that continue off the last couple posts and offer hardly anything constructive towards helping other members, it will be deleted.

 

 

 

All are entitled to their own opinions and will often disagree about things such as the application process. Remember, all applicants have different mental models that they use in their individual assessment of the application process.Please present your responses in a friendly manner and keep the board mutually respectful.

 

 

--- Forum Admin ----

[ForestCrunk]

For those that are pro waiting until April 15th (deciding from two offers in hand), what are the odds of your opinion changing after, let's say, April 7th?

 

It may not seem like a lot of time for those deciding, but the difference between making a decision on the 7th and the 15th could be HUGE for somebody else, as people may still be holding out on the waitlist for their ideal school on the 7th, but just about everybody will have had to decide on a school (even if not a top choice) by the 15th.

 

I'm all for talking the time you need to make a decision, but waiting until the absolute last day seems unlikely to pay extreme dividends, while it can very well put other people in a pinch. Just my 2 cents.

[AppInfo]

Well said TM. I'm reminded by this discussion that we are all biased by our own pasts experience, personal circumstances, and pre-existing beliefs. I think the system (i.e. the April 15th deadline) while not perfect, is generally fair and tries to do the most good for the most number of people. That is not to say that certain people won't get the worst of it, but the system as a whole is reasonable. Thus I see no moral obligation for any individual to go above and beyond the system, however, they may choose to do so based on their personal value or circumstances. Of course I'm making a lot of philosophical assumptions here.

 

My broader point is that we ought to respect other people's situations, values, morals, and philosophies. There is no 'right' here. As academics we should strive to not unilaterally impose our own views on others, rather we should try to recognize that approaches/thinking other than our own may be equally valid (with its own advantages and disadvantages over ours).

Edited April 1, 2015 by AppInfo

[YaSvoboden]

For those that are pro waiting until April 15th (deciding from two offers in hand), what are the odds of your opinion changing after, let's say, April 7th?

 

It may not seem like a lot of time for those deciding, but the difference between making a decision on the 7th and the 15th could be HUGE for somebody else, as people may still be holding out on the waitlist for their ideal school on the 7th, but just about everybody will have had to decide on a school (even if not a top choice) by the 15th.

 

I'm all for talking the time you need to make a decision, but waiting until the absolute last day seems unlikely to pay extreme dividends, while it can very well put other people in a pinch. Just my 2 cents.

I agree that waiting until the last minute is not optimal. I have heard a PhD director comment on someone that waited until like 6 p.m. on the 15th to reply and it wasn't a positive comment. You have every right to take the time you need, but you should inform people once you have made a decision. The only good reason I see to actually wait until the 15th is that it increases the possibility of you hearing from a waitlist school. This should really only happen because someone else was waiting on a waitlist school that is holding an offer from that school. Somewhere up the line, someone should probably start the cascade.

 

I understand how difficult it is to make a decision that has major effects on the rest of your life like this one, but give yourself an earlier deadline and see if that helps you make it. When I was choosing between schools I made a decision, was set on it and decided to see how it felt for a day before telling anyone. This actually helped me feel really good about what I finally did.

[wannabephd]

When I was choosing between schools I made a decision, was set on it and decided to see how it felt for a day before telling anyone. This actually helped me feel really good about what I finally did.

I like this advice. I did the same thing (& have done this with jobs). Basically, I "live the decision" for 24 hours with all of my options, then see how I feel.

[eventualprof]

It is also possible that a school makes no movement on the wait list when an admitted student declines. I'm sure that many schools move down the list after an offer is declined, but I have heard of at least two schools that just lived with a smaller cohort when an admitted student did not decide to matriculate. And this could be different for each school each year, depending on the applicant pool and the current lot of PhD students, among other factors

 

My point is that most of us have no idea what the actual repercussions will be when a student accepts early or late. For those of you that have offers and are still mulling the possibilities, keep soul searching. You should not make a decision hastily. If you know, pull the trigger when you feel the time is right.

 

For those of you who are waiting, you're in a tough position. Control what you can. Usually, that sphere of influence does not include other people that you've never met on an internet forum, and it probably doesn't include adcoms that may or may not decide to move down the list. Things may work out in your favor. We're still a couple of weeks away from the 15th. Remember that it is unlikely that anyone is trying to "screw" you by considering their options a little longer. There are even some on this forum who are considering your feelings when making their decision, something that is not required. Hang in there. There's still hope. Great things can come from incredibly painful situations, even if it takes longer than you originally anticipated.

[myndfood]

Well said eventualprof.

[wittmic]

It is also possible that a school makes no movement on the wait list when an admitted student declines. I'm sure that many schools move down the list after an offer is declined, but I have heard of at least two schools that just lived with a smaller cohort when an admitted student did not decide to matriculate.

 

You can add us to that list if we weren't there already. We frequently stick with only one or two students when not all of our first-round offers are accepted.

[wannabephd]

It is also possible that a school makes no movement on the wait list when an admitted student declines. I'm sure that many schools move down the list after an offer is declined, but I have heard of at least two schools that just lived with a smaller cohort when an admitted student did not decide to matriculate. And this could be different for each school each year, depending on the applicant pool and the current lot of PhD students, among other factors

 

wouldn't it be easier to not have a wait list if you're not going to use it?

[Radcliffe]

I like to think of it as karma. I had two offers, and I was also on the wait-list. So I turned down one of my original two offers in the hopes that someone would do the same for me at the other schools.

I was in the same position as the guy who wants to hold onto all of his offers, just out of being risk averse. But I can tell you, that is all irrational. Even though I didn't want to turn down one of my offers, I knew one offer dominated the other.

 

If you can't decide on an offer right now, how is it going to be different waiting several days from now? All you have to do is make a campus visit, ask some questions, and then compare them.

 

Turns out karma worked out for me. I turned down a top 100 program, and the week after that I got an interview and offer at a top 25 program (according to UT Dallas). To make it more interesting, there were 10 schools I applied to between 25-100 that rejected me.

[eventualprof]

wouldn't it be easier to not have a wait list if you're not going to use it?

 

Perhaps. It depends on what the wait list is used for. Some use it as you assume, an additional pool of qualified applicants that barely lost out in the offer competition, one that can be tapped if someone decides not to come. Others might use it this way some years and not in years when the applicant pool is less than spectacular. Still others might use the wait list as an easier let down for highly qualified (but nonetheless unacceptable in the current year) students. For example, which sounds better to you, a rejection or a wait list + rejection? The former gives no indication of your position while the latter indicates that you were close to an admit, even if there is no intent to give you one. I acknowledge that this is a far-fetched idea for how a wait list might be used, but one path to rejection is certainly easier to reconcile in an applicant's mind than the other.

 

The wait list can be viewed as the school keeping its options open. The school has no obligation to exercise the options when they are presented with an opportunity, but they could. Individual results will vary.

[XanthusARES]

Perhaps. It depends on what the wait list is used for. Some use it as you assume, an additional pool of qualified applicants that barely lost out in the offer competition, one that can be tapped if someone decides not to come. Others might use it this way some years and not in years when the applicant pool is less than spectacular. Still others might use the wait list as an easier let down for highly qualified (but nonetheless unacceptable in the current year) students. For example, which sounds better to you, a rejection or a wait list + rejection? The former gives no indication of your position while the latter indicates that you were close to an admit, even if there is no intent to give you one. I acknowledge that this is a far-fetched idea for how a wait list might be used, but one path to rejection is certainly easier to reconcile in an applicant's mind than the other.

 

The wait list can be viewed as the school keeping its options open. The school has no obligation to exercise the options when they are presented with an opportunity, but they could. Individual results will vary.

 

 

You can also include that sometimes schools have a set date for funding. They have the offers that they made and they have a waitlist, but if the accepted people don't decline by say March 10th, then they won't bring anyone else on. Not all schools do this, but I have to 100% agree with EP that schools are under no obligation to bring anyone off the waitlist. I have a strong opinion about this, but it's just an opinion and I feel like this topic has gone off the rails too much already. (Although it has been brought back onto the rails by our forum moderator)

[tradingplaces]

I screwed up with one school when I turned them down. I politely a senior faculty that I would not be attending. But he did not convey this to the director of the program, and the director got mad at me for not telling him earlier The thing was the director was a really cool guy and I couldn't tell him directly. I imagine that is one school where I will not have a chance to be a faculty later.

 

Another school, during the "waiting period", I sent a friendly email to the director because as I was cleaning out my textbooks, I saw that he was the main author of a textbook. It was a spur of the moment, "wow, I didn't even know this was your book!" kind of email, but he took that as a sign that I accepted the offer, and when I had to tell him I was not going to accept it, he got rather angry at me.

 

The thing is it was really hard for me, and I imagine if you got along with the professors at that school you really have to handle it well.

 

Looking back, it was also a problem I had with dating. I never liked to "close the door shut", which always led to terrible endings. Anyways, hope that helps someone out there!

[rsaylors]

It is clear that we need a draft.

[Sheetrockero]

So it's April 15th... does that mean application season is pretty much over?

[wannabephd]

So it's April 15th... does that mean application season is pretty much over?

 

And tax day!