tbroker Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Hello I am a senior at a realtively known, but small, liberal arts college. I am both a Finance and a History major here, history because I like it a lot. My overall GPA is ~3.8 and it is a ~3.75 in Finance and ~3.95 in history. My finance GPA would be a lot higher if I did not receieve a C first semester freshman year in a class which I did not get along with the professor in. Anyway I do not have much of a Math background I have taken Statistics and CalcI-III earning an A or A- in each. I have accepted an investment banking analyst job in NYC for the next 3 years, and even though I will be making near $100,000 a year my dream is to do research and teach at a top university. Along with the dream I want to go to a top PhD in Economics program, where I can learn a lot and also get good placement upon graduation. I know my profile is weak, and I need to improve certain things. I will have good recommendations because I am close with my professors but what should I do in the next 36 months for me to get into a top program. Also, I realize that it might take 4-5 years of prep it would be ideal to do it in 3. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poleringer Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Hello I am a senior at a realtively known, but small, liberal arts college. I am both a Finance and a History major here, history because I like it a lot. My overall GPA is ~3.8 and it is a ~3.75 in Finance and ~3.95 in history. My finance GPA would be a lot higher if I did not receieve a C first semester freshman year in a class which I did not get along with the professor in. Anyway I do not have much of a Math background I have taken Statistics and CalcI-III earning an A or A- in each. I have accepted an investment banking analyst job in NYC for the next 3 years, and even though I will be making near $100,000 a year my dream is to do research and teach at a top university. Along with the dream I want to go to a top PhD in Economics program, where I can learn a lot and also get good placement upon graduation. I know my profile is weak, and I need to improve certain things. I will have good recommendations because I am close with my professors but what should I do in the next 36 months for me to get into a top program. Also, I realize that it might take 4-5 years of prep it would be ideal to do it in 3. Thanks usually it takes someone a couple months doing banking to realize they really want the phd. if you already know this, my advice would be to skip the job (unless you really need it to pay loans) and stay in school either taking non degree math classes or get an MA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 No I really want the job first. With this company I will get to travel a lot see a lot, work my *** off =) and make great contacts. Also, it was a dream to do IB then PhD, however, what can I do in the midst to make me a shoe in. I am willing to dedicate the 3 years of work and up to 1-2 years out of work afterwards to get into a top 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidolive Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 my professor works as an IBanker then went to PhD economics. I just don't know how he did it hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 What is his name or email address I will not mention you...but talking with him would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
econanu Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I came out of undergrad pretty much knowing that I wanted to get a PhD and go into research but decided to get a job before applying. I worked at the UN for a bit, then moved to an econ consulting firm because I wanted more quant work. A bunch of the school's PhD admissions websites say that these types of policy/econ-related jobs don't help you that much in gaining admissions, and that investment banking jobs help even less. If you really want the PhD, then don't bother working, head to the econometrics/mathematical economics masters program at LSE - I wish I had! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
econanu Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 No I really want the job first. With this company I will get to travel a lot see a lot, work my *** off =) and make great contacts. Also, it was a dream to do IB then PhD, however, what can I do in the midst to make me a shoe in. I am willing to dedicate the 3 years of work and up to 1-2 years out of work afterwards to get into a top 15 If you go to a business school and do a PhD in finance, there will be tons of banks ready to pick you up even just after the coursework. One reason that it might not be a good idea to do it beforehand, is that the PhD departments know that the banks want econ/finance PhDs because you have the skills and talents the banks need, so they might be less willing to take you if you seem to have had an interest in banking even after doing your undergrad econ coursework. Just a thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 Well being that I have signed on and accepted the 10,000 signing bonus and I am excited I will do it. is there any such programs other than lse...i don't feel like going to london. also after phd I want to teach...no more banking...lastly being a banker may not aide the cause but does it necessairly detract from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broczilla Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 How did you do in your econ classes, math classes, and on the gre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 a in calc 1....b+ in calc ii...a in calc 3...a in all stats...760 on gre quant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
econanu Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 It sounds like you're decided on doing the banking thing for a year. While you're doing this, keep in touch with your professors - maybe you could work as a RA for one of them this semester and through the summer? You may as well apply to a couple of PhD programs as well Masters programs. If you don't get into the PhD program, you can concentrate on getting the linear/ODE/analysis and research experience that will get you in while you're taking the masters. I've found that it's really hard to get this type of stuff (courses, research etc.) done while you're working and I'm not even in banking. There's also a "preparatory masters" thread on the best masters programs to take - lots of the U.S. schools stopped offering them, so the best ones are in Europe or Canada, but there are some U.S. suggestions there also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 ap cred and b+ in macro...i didn't care during my fresh year...i turned things around after and got a or a- on ever fin class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 also I did some research experience with a professor for 1 year on alternate risk transfers but she ended up stopping it in order to pursue something else...since she did that to me I did not follow her new pursuit. instead I started working on the performance of socially responsible mutual funds. does that help me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 also I did some research experience with a professor for 1 year on alternate risk transfers but she ended up stopping it in order to pursue something else...since she did that to me I did not follow her new pursuit. instead I started working on the performance of socially responsible mutual funds. does that help me? Anyone have any response for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 figured i would bump once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
econanu Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 The research experience helps you, especially if you get a recommendation from the professor discussing your involvement in a positive light. Are you looking only at econ departments, because it sounds like you're interests are more aligned with the finance PhD programs at business schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 I am trying to figure out which I am going to choose. If I brush up in math, where are my best chances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gzuz Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Am I the only one who thinks working after college can be good for a PhD candidate? It is true that from multiple written sources I've heard that adcoms want you to be as untainted by the real world as possible, thus liking students who come straight out of undergrad. Certainly the type of work you do (e.g. working for the Fed, RA are all pluses, the rest are neutral) matters afterwards. But I think this type of thinking is on its way out. Many of the professors (ahem: levitt) and virtually all of the graduate students I talked to about graduate school recommended taking a few years off to get some real world experience. You have to remember, grad schools don't want problem set masters, they want people they can mold into researchers. I think getting some real world experience can help in this aspect--if not just professionally then definitely from a personal, maturity aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daageep Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 your best bet is to just take more math. even if job experience gets you in somewhere, you still need to take classes that are mathematically rigorous. take your standard calculus sequence, linear algebra, proof-based linear algebra and real analysis, advanced probability and statistics, optimization, and more analysis if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Is it ok to do this at a community college? While I work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassin Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Am I the only one who thinks working after college can be good for a PhD candidate? It is true that from multiple written sources I've heard that adcoms want you to be as untainted by the real world as possible, thus liking students who come straight out of undergrad. This is because mature students find it harder to adjust to being lectured, taking notes and doing homework - according to some mature students forums I've visited. Hence real-world experience is detrimental for passing the first year classes and comps. Real-world experience may help with questions to ask in the dissertation essays, however, as well as increase personal utility by clarifying tastes. But I think this type of thinking is on its way out. Many of the professors (ahem: levitt) and virtually all of the graduate students I talked to about graduate school recommended taking a few years off to get some real world experience. There are two distinct points. For applied work like Levitt's labour life experience is very important (especially if you have connections inside the mayor's office for Chicago city's educational stats :). These help you form good questions. For theory - less so. Secondly, this advice can make sense in terms of personal utility maximizing, rather than maximizing value to ad coms or probability of adission. These are distinct things. It may be worthwhile to travel and work internationally even if it hurts chances of admission to top 5 if that's what you wanted to do. Remember, getting econ PhD is only one of life's goals, not the end in itself. You have to remember, grad schools don't want problem set masters, they want people they can mold into researchers. I think getting some real world experience can help in this aspect--if not just professionally then definitely from a personal, maturity aspect. Yes and no. They want researchers after you pass comps. Assuming you can pass comps - get as much experiences as you can to improve research ideas. They don't care if you have good ideas but can't solve dynamic programs. Here's what NYU website says: Does work experience count? Good question. The answer is: it depends. If you have been --- say --- an investment banker for 5 years before you applied to a Ph.D. in economics at NYU, you probably have serious work experience but probably none of it will point towards your success (or failure) in a research program. So far as the doctoral degree in economics is concerned, you're probably better off applying just after graduating from university. [This is not to denigrate investment banking at all, but only to point out that it signals very little about the kind of skills we're looking for.] If you have been, say, at the World Bank, or an intern at the Fed, very similar considerations may apply. It all depends on exactly what you have been doing, but in general don't expect to jump into a priority queue because of this sort of work experience. While experience certainly counts as a positive attribute, it also means that you've been out of touch with academic research for a few years. While experience helps you ask a new set of questions, it can also sometimes close you off to new academic methodologies or ideas. Work experience cuts both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 well just to be clear, I in know why expect my three years as an investment banker to aide my admissions. however, I do expect adcoms to at least respect the rigor of such a job and also my dedication of pursuing rigurous math courses while entrenched in ibanking. also I need to do math work and cash so I need a job. also an econ phd is an end goal but not my only goal. I think working in ib will give me many interesting research topics to ponder. also I will get a 760+ on the gre quant. I am willing to keep trying to do so. with that in mind is there a point, or number rather that taking the gre futher will make grad schools wonder if you got such a score only because you took it ten or more times. and is the gre the best combo that counts or do you just get to choose from your last score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snappythecrab Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Is it ok to do this at a community college? While I work. I'm not sure you're going to find many community colleges offering the courses that you need. do expect adcoms to at least respect the rigor of such a job and also my dedication of pursuing rigurous math courses while entrenched in ibanking. I'd be surprised if you seriously have time to do this...and I'm not sure how much respect it will garner. Give it a shot, but I honestly think you could use a dose of reality. When do you think you're going to even have time to attend class? and is the gre the best combo that counts or do you just get to choose from your last score. Neither. I mean, on your apps, often times you can simply post the mix of your best two. However, when you actually submit your GRE score reports, it is either all or none. They see every score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 I have found a CC in the area with most of the classes and UMD has the upperlevel classes. I have obtained permission from my manager to take classes in the morning and come to work afterwards being that the stat courses, linear, diff, and calc III are offered at the nearby community college with classes starting at 8am-8:50 3 days a week and I will be at work at 9am. So that is the reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbroker Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 any thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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