GuyWithNoName

I believe lot of your comments are valuable. However, since you said the content is not important, I would like to point out the following quote from ETS (Knock also posted it in this forum): "If an examinee's response does not address the question given, it results in a lower score. Sometimes this occurs when an examinee answers with memorized responses that are very general and do not exactly answer what they were asked to speak about." Good luck

Agreeing with echolile, I would suggest you practice on TWE topics as well. In your note, I noticed there are some things missing/errored. eg: prepositions, tense etc. I have not heard how good your spoken English is, but I suspect that is another area that your need to pay attention to. In line with what TSEprep said, when you attempt the exam, you have to pause often, and watch out for the intonation. The tone alone, if used in different ways, could mean different things. Pausing comes with two advantages. First of all, it will give you more time to think and correct any errors in your head before you speak. Secondly, it gives the evaluator to grasp what you are saying even if at first s/he is not able to understand something. You may talk slow, but make sure you don’t draaaaaaaggggggggg. I would suggest you try Bruno Hills’ course for once and practice with some one who has a good grasp of English. Bruno says, it could take up to 8 months of intense study since we are practically changing the way we learned to speak. And passing TSE means more that just studying for the exam, you have to practice the same in real life too. Once your English (as in when you speak in your real life) improve, you will pass TSE. Many people think that they can beat the system by just studying for TSE and that is not easy. Also, check the TSE bulletin. It shows the median score for folks that have different primary languages. I've noticed that folks with Chinese language background (by this I mean mandarin, Vietnamese, Korean etc etc) have a lower median score than folks from other languages. May be it is because English is not taught in these countries from school level up. If you come from a background with low median score, please try doubly harder. Wish you all the best.

Good post!!!

Here is my understanding regarding this matter. I've seen some differences of opinion regarding these questions on this site. Usually the alternate batches get the same set of questions. eg: 10 'o clock people get set 1, 10:30 get set 2, 11: 00 gets set 1 etc... The test can be conducted in the morning or afternoon. Usually you will not know until you get your exam ticket. I believe the exam is conducted at the same time all around the world, either morning OR afternoon. Anybody is free to cast counter opinions.

I agree with Murthy. It is really not the number of materials that matters, it is how you use them that counts. As mentioned elsewhere in this forum, TSE is just an exam that tests your basic English speaking skills. Pick one (two atmost) source and stick with it. If only one source is chosen, make sure it is TSE oriented. The examinee need to learn proper spoken English and apply TSE exam techniques to it. Thank you ksubpha for your recommendations..

I needed 55 in TSE in order to secure myself a teaching assistant job at my university. This at first sounded like a Himalayan task that I will never achieve. I talked to the school officials to reduce this requirement to 50. My friends here were very helpful since some of them also had to pass this hurdle as well. However, the Univ. for sure did not budge to my multiple requests through different channels. The first time I attempted was TSE from India. I got a 40. I gave it for re-evaluation but came back with the same grade. After arriving in the US, I attempted the exam again in May. The score improved to 45. I tried again in June but the score did not change. That is when I decided it was time for some serious change. I decided to seek help. My first helpers were my roommate and a cousin. In exchange for me doing the house hold chores including cooking, my roomie agreed to spend 1½ hrs every day correcting my English. In addition to that, I used to go visit my cousin who lived about 15 miles away on weekends. He helped me a lot as well. I did not attempt my July exam, both because I was short on cash as well as because I still was not confident in my performance. When I started my serious study, I was thorough and I was only able to learn one response per day. There was still some words that I was having problems with. I continued practicing. I used to practice my English for 8-10 hrs/day during that time period. I also bought a DVD, “Oceans Twelve” and practiced the actor’s conversations this time period. (There is nothing special about this movie. I just happened to pick it). By the exam time, I mastered the whole dialogue including the stress points, tone and pauses. I also listened to some Bruno Hill recordings that helped me plan how to respond during the exam. I tried again in August. I got the 55 I needed! To conclude here is what I learned during this ordeal: 1) Persistence pays off. 2) Critically evaluate your selves while practicing. 3) Let some one with critical ears help you. Correct yourselves based on their findings. Here is what I found the hardest to do: To work on my English word by word. I have learned in English for the most part of my life. To change a lot of those was both frustrating and time consuming. Once I got to the mental stage that things need to be drastically changed, the learning process became more interesting.

One more thought about the potential tutor. Initially, you will have to spend some time training the tutor to make him/her understand the nature of TSE. As many might already know, atleast to some extend passing TSE does not mean you are a better communicator in the outside world. The opposite is also true. A good outside world communicator is not necessarily a good TSE exam taker. So train for the exam and not just general English. This also requires observing such basics as talking in a slower pace with about 80-100 words per minute etc.

If there are any TSE graders visting this site, can you please identify yourselves and explain how TSE's "Holistic grading" process works? What buttons can the examinee push to get higher grades?

Lot of times we all complain about the frustrating the TSE experience. This atleast to some extend is because we do not interpret the TSE grades appropriately. Here is a guideline to interpreting your TSE score: TSE grading process: Your TSE responses are graded by two experts. Their scores are then summed, averaged and that will be your final score. If there is a difference of more that 10 points between the graders, a third evaluator will grade your responses. For example, if the two scorers graded you 41 and 45, your average score will be 43. This will be rounded up to 45. If the two graders gave you 39 and 45, your average score will be 42. This will be rounded down to 40. So, if you get intermittent scores of 40 and 45 in different attempts, it is an excellent indication that your grades consistently falls in the lower 40s. In other words, on contrary to what might seems apparent, moving to a higher grade in most cases does not mean you have improved whole five points. The actual change in grade very likely might only be a matter of .5 of a point. In other words, for two people getting 45, the improvement each needs to make in order to achieve 50 might be considerably different. One person might actually be getting 43 and the other might be getting 47. It is apparent the second person is considerable closer with only .5 points away from achieving the dream 50. See my other post with the title “This post is for folks who tried TSE more than 5-6 times” to see how you can improve your TSE score.

Couple of ideas comes to my mind. First is to go to near by colleges and post flyers on the message bulletin. Try for English or education majors. If you can get someone in the masters level, that would be ideal. You can get one for $6-$8 per hour range or sometimes for more depending on where you live. Another choice will be to get an English teacher from the local school to help you. The cost might be a bit higher, but they will have all the experience from teaching. Since you are already getting 50 points for TSE, I think I can safely assume that your conversation skills are pretty good. Go to any nearby colleges and talk to the English department head. See whether they have any courses that can help you improve your conversation skills. Since you are shooting for 60 points in TSE, the above-mentioned folks might be better suited for your goals. One more tip. I know some people might cast stones at me for saying this. Be brave to skip couple of months exams. Since there is a 10 points distance to your goal, I strongly suggest you to invest your exam money into preparing for the exam. Once you feel like you have made improvement, attempt your exam again. Attempting exams month after month without looking for improvement areas (and improving), will only help you hurt your confidence and make you feel bad. On the plus side, by the time you achieve your goal, you will considerably improve your English communication skills. Good luck!

One of the tips that Bruno offers on his site is to thoroughly study 50 answers. This includes memorizing them as well as perfecting pronunciation, intonation, what to stress and what not to stress, accent reduction etc. All of these things except memorizing requires someone else’s help with thorough knowledge of the language and with a critical ear, preferably a native speaker. If possible, get two or three hours of personal coaching everyday, especially if you have tried TSE more than five or six times. Just like in sports, a coach can help you significantly improve your performance and can be crucial for your success with TSE. If you plan to study this way, I will not be surprised if you are only able to learn one or two answers per day(of eight hours). It really is takes this much effort to master the responses. As you know, the outcome of this 50 answers plan is not only that you can instantly produce those responses you practiced if they appear on the exam, but also that you will learn what mistakes you have been making thus avoiding those mistakes while responding to other exam questions. TSE measures your proficiency in communication compared to what ETS expects. It is really like an IQ test. Just like for an IQ test, you can increase your grade by practicing FOR the exam. This might or might not increase your outside communication (Although, practicing your learning even during casual communication with others can be very helpful). The takeaways from this post are: 1) Practice as much as you can with native speakers or good English speakers with critical ears. Ask them to correct you while responding to TSE questions. Try to get at least two hours of coaching per day. 2) Use the 50 questions approach to perfect your English.

The following is the link to someone complaining about TSE way back in 2002. The article is specific to Nurses problem of passing the test. We all know that nurses have other options. Just wanted to bring attention to the fact that if we try hard enough by sending letters to our representatives (or take time to personally meet them), contacting Better Business Bureau (www.bbb.org) about the monopoly abuse etc. we have a fighting chance. What do you think? Can you folks suggest any other options? http://www.ilw.com/immigdaily/digest/2002,1227.shtm Below is the relevant excerpt

Couple of posts in this forum inspired me to write this. One was about bad centers and how it ruined the person's exam. Another one was about suing ETS. Multiple people overhearing others shouting into the speaker is bad for any exam taker, let alone spoken English test taker. I do believe we have a potentially effective and cheap way to Sue ETS. Using Small claims court I believe we can sue them effectively. In effect the local court should have authority over the defendant - here ETS. From the quote below it appears that we can file the claim where the claim arose, which is your test center. Below is a quote from one of the Internet sites. You can easily google to find a lot of information about small claims court. All it will take us is two or three visits to the court - one to file the claim and one for the hearing. If they ask an extension (which I do not think they will), you may have to appear once again. On the other hand, ETS will be on a difficult situation since they have to come to each corner of the country to appear in court. Refunding your money will be much less expensive for them. Also keep in mind, although there is a nominal court filing fee, the defendant will have to pay you that amount as well upon a favorable judgement to you. In addition, if you are one of the unlucky ones that have been taking the exam at the same crappy place again and again, sue them for all those costs and might very well get all the money back. When they start to loose money on atleast 50% of the attendants they will learn their lesson. As we all know, if we had more resources, we easily could have successfully filed a class action lawsuit against them and even force NABP to open their eyes. I still cannot believe that an organization can get away with this sort of irresponsible behavior. What do you all think? Any legal experts here that can offer some advice? Fighting for Justice... http://www.statelib.lib.in.us/WWW/isl/indiana/Counties/GrantCo3.jpg

Good point. I you get 45 just sent it for re-scoring. One good thing about re-scoring is that (unless you are planning to get licensed in Florida or something) if your grade actually goes down or up you will get your money back. If anything below 50 is useless for you, I recommend you re-score each time you get 45.

I am sorry to tell you that in this case, following what ETS suggested is the only (practical) way. From a legal standpoint, since they readily offered a refund, there is no ground for you to claim aggravation. While you lost your time and incurred expenses such as gas, I do not think in this case lawsuit is the answer - even if you go to small claims court. Study hard, try again and hope for the best.

Good summary. Also, keeping a critical ear open to ones on speech is the only way to improve the speech, pronunciation.

I have no experience with TOEFL iBT. However, here is what I have to say. Since you already have TOEFL, keep trying TSE until they discontinue it. I personally do not think the new TOEFL iBt format is any easier. My justification is from another one of my posts, "If you find the current 50/60=83.33 unfair, wait till TOEFL iBt roles out with a speech requirement of 26/30=86.66". However, if folks who took the new test can testify that it is easier, I will go by their recommendation. Plus, the fee for TSE is slightly less than that for the new format ($140 vs $125). The new format will take about 4 hours to complete. Also, we know very well about the TSE question format along with lots of examples but it is not the case with the new format. Read more at http://ftp.ets.org/pub/toefl/TOEFL_at_a_Glance.pdf One advantage I can see is that you might get a more definite grade. Instead of the current TSE grades format that jumps (40-45-50 etc), you might be able to get something closer that reflects any improvements (such as 23-24-25-26 etc). Another advantage I can think of is that you get the grades back fairly fast (15 days) and can view it online. Good luck!

Member of "its" group? What group?

I think all the angry people should start a flame wars thread and continue their flames burn there... I find it very amusing to learn that. You should think about becoming a writer for one of the tabloids :) Trust me. I am not Khoa..

Until that last correction sentence I was seriously lost. I will try to respond to what I understood. All I could sense was some attitude and anger (I just went back and noticed that all those shut up messages were from you as well! ). Also, I agree that in a conversation there is the speaking part and the listening part. I most certainly agree. Also FYI...I am not a newbie in this forum (have been lurking for atleast the past one year). If you were trying to tell me ETS is not perfect, I concur with you. I know first hand the "quality" of their customer service. I personally know some testing centers where they have four test takers shouting into the recording machines at the same time in the same room. I know how the customer service can tell you different things at different occasions. I also understand the argument that the valuation results are not consistent. But my point is that, if we do not learn to speak English as closely as the native speakers, we will not even have the chance to pass the examination. While trying to correct ETS should always be in our agenda (See my post regarding the CNN article), our immediate goal should be to do our best thorough practicing. pronunciation correction well taken. I listened and I learned. That is the kind of discussion I said we should see more often in this forum for the benefit of the community. KollurMurthy is an excellent example of positive contribution on this forum.

This is exactly the kind of discussions that help the forum and its members benefit.

A recent Article in CNN about the new generation TOEFL. It definitely is an article generated as a resulted of initiations from ETS's PR department. We can certainly organize something against it by sending mails to CNN as well - just like what we did by sending letters to NABP. Think about it. When it comes to PR, ETS might bend a little by relaxing its grading criteria. Keep on improving your English in the mean time though. http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/09/23/english.test.ap/index.html

Just wanted to add my for what it matters. When one of our pals raise a point here, whether it is agreeable or not, let us not try to shout him or her down. Part of the reason for this forum is to share ideas and grow. As some one mentioned in the thread, one thing I also have learned thus far from this forum is that no one know what exactly makes one pass or fail. There are a lot of loose theories (including some that are really out there in my view point). I saw one post that mentioned not all of the locals can pass TSE either. That is true. Just like all the folks who go to school does not pass. Also, about the locals talking bad grammar. Those kind of bad language plus slangs are part of any language. Some people elect to be losers as well. That is their choice. Why do you care? Plus, they do not have to pass TOEFL/TSE - you do. I believe, TSE is an exam that measures how good you are in handling the language. What I mean by this is that when you appear for the exam, if you do not pause as needed, talk too fast or slow, mispronounce words etc. you will fail. One of the hardest things about learning language is to learn all these. Lot of the foreign student education is text based. In other words, they have not used it very much in the real world. Even if you've used it in the real world, you need to change what you have learned in order for the locals to understand it. Two-three months of very patient study will help you accomplish this. Some might need more, some less. But the point is that, you have to start from studying word by word. After graduating from that, move to phrases and then to sentences. It is just like relearning a language. When you watch TV, concentrate on the pronunciations, sentence structure rather than on the entertainment value. Lot of the folks around you will not see any problems with your English. This is because they are used to your English/they are just like you or because they are lying. So I beg you all to be more objective and try to put in sincere efforts to overcome the hurdle. TSE bashing will do you no good. If you find the current 50/60=83.33 unfair, wait till TOEFL iBt roles out with a requirement of 26/30=86.66. Just do not keep saying justifications such as lot of people do not now how to properly read and write, hence I also choose that way.