ariel1987

I did my undergrad at a very very unknown institution in Canada. I and had a really good profile with amazing references from unknown profs. I didn't get into a top program that year, but I managed to get $$ from UBC's MA. After UBC I had the chance to get in to Cornell with $$$, having the same references. Based on my story, I would say that comimng from an unknown school will kill your chances (at least hurt them a lot) if you want to transfer directly to a top PhD, but you can always make it through the MA route. Hope this helps

You have to be more careful when considering the rankings of B-schools PhD programs. You can't simply consider each division as we would consider a sub-field in Economics. For example, if you are interested in operations research, Sauder is hands-down the best program in Canada and one of the top 10 programs in the world. I would argue the same with Strategy and Business Econ. Divisions within a school count much, much more than subfields in an econ program. That's why rankings are so hard to elaborate among b-schools.

@ Gecko: These are not placements for a particular class. These are placements during th epast 5 years. And if you look at the list for the past 10 years, placements are similar. The OR division is very very strong. @Ellie: I know that they sometimes only admit 1 student or some divisions even don't admit any students during a particular year. For example, the Business Econ division didn't admit any students this year. They are looking for particular fits and for a specific type of person. If your strengths and profile match what the school is looking for, you will be admitted. Otherwise, they don't care about rejecting all of the applicants. Obviously, they are not only looking for a fit, but for a VERY STRONG fit. I know that they want to keep their placements at a top level. They are, imho, a top 10 school for some of the divisions. However, their treatment is amazing and their people are very nice.I Their application fee is 0, so there's no reasong for not giving it a shot if you find it to be a really good place.

The OR division at Sauder School of Business only admits 1 or 2 students per year, and their their complete list of placements for the past five years are: Chicago Booth (2010) UMichigan- Ann Arbor (2009) Waterloo (2008) Western Ontario - Ivy (2008) UMichigan-Ann Arbor (2007) University of Ottawa (2007) University of California, Irvine (2006) How many econ schools have placements as such? Also, take into account that these are ALL of the students who graduated within the past five years.

The most brilliant people in our program were Chinese. However, none of the ones I know applied to schools in the top10. They either wanted to stay in Canada or didn't aim for the top schools. The reason for this? In my opinion, they are too humble and didn't see themselves as top10 material. Crazy and unbelievable!! I can't believe some of these guys didn't even aim for >Michigan. They are impressive problem solvers!! It is actually true; none of the brightest people in my cohort went for any top schools! They ended at top30-top20 places, which is damn good still. You may be thinking I am just saying this to defend UBC (actually, I am not very happy with many things in this program). But I believe that if you are good enough, and wish to aim for the great schools, you will be able to get in. UBC won't deter your chances. Oh, and if you wish to come, let me welcome you to hell. Because you are going to be working 'till death. You will be doing hard, very hard math by yourself. Yes, you will be more than prepared for a PhD program at ANY place. But... you will have to pay a very high price for that. Actually, I am right now hating economics after 8 months in the program. The difference between PhD material and thee UBC MA material nd intensity is not very big.

I am sorry but you cannot judge the value of a program that well for placements. I think you get more than adequate training for a PhD at UBC. Actually, it goes to the border of exhausting you. You'll be dead by the end of the year, after having learn really, really intense math-heavy economics. However, to be quite honest, if you can't place in a top-10 from your Undergrad, it will be extremely hard to jump to a top-10 with your MA. You will be placed marginally better, but not take an impressive jump. The problem: Economics is one (if not the most) competitive fields. In order to be top10 material, you pretty much need to be a hard working BRILLIANT (in the most strict sense of the word) person. Not the type of brilliant who is top of the class in a top200 school. I mean, the top of your class in a top20-top 30 school... Getting into an elite school is very very hard. As a matter of fact, it is not easy at all to stay at UBC. People with {A+,A+,A,A-} in their core MA courses got rejected by UBC. Why? Amazing people are applying for their PhD program. I didn't apply to their PhD program, but I think I would have been rejected. If you come, you will encounter incredibly brilliant people, some who have gotten to Berkeley, LSE, Maryland, Chicago, etc. So, bottomline: If you come to UBC and deserve to be at a top-10 school, you will do it. However, take into mind that this is almost an impossible feat. You will get to a top school if you go to UPF, TSE, C3M, Queens or UofT. After arriving here, I have learned that this isn't a question of universitites as it is much a question of the student (and luck, obviously). Yes, UofT, Queens may have better placements, but I don't think they are statistically significant. I believe, simply, that they have had better outliers. My last argument to show my point: In the undergrad, we have had people going to Stanford, Princeton, Michigan, etc every year. Why is it the case that UBC sends people to top 10 programs consistently in their undergrad but not in the MA? Well, simply because these students are soo good that they don't need the MA as a ladder, manage to get graduate courses in their belt since their 3rd year, do very well, and jump directly to the top programs. People who go to the MA weren't that good in their UG, and the MA program will not convert them, suddenly, into top 10 students.

I can't explain why someone who's just startng her or his undergrad is in this forum, stressing about these things!!! GO AND ENJOY LIFE!!! WORK AND DO YOUR BEST BUT AVOID WORRYING ABOUT SUCH THINGS!!! What are we going to get next? Someone who's 12, asking if she took the wrong courses in Elementary school, and her lack of AP arithmetic is going to hurt her chances of getting into a top 5. I don;'t mean to be unwelcoming, and you are certainly welcomed at this forum. But you are overstressing yourself with very small details at this point. I am TAing a very brilliant first year student who's taking Econ-math major, and is already worried about which graduate courses for third and fourth year. This guy is getting very amazing grades, but you can tell at first glance that he is wrecked by stress. Congratulations on having a good, solid plan. Yet, try to take courses you enjoy, meet nice people and have a great time. Undergrad shouldn't be all about getting A's. It is such a wonderful experience!

Thanks guys! Yah, I read the about.com section. It looks like B-schools offer much better opportunities if money is a concern. Also, eocnomics is highly theoretical and applied people might find better opportunities witha Business PhD

Hey guys, I have read previous threads and all the like, but I would like your opinion about this issue. I recently looked at Business Schools and their intake (for most programs) is of about 2 people for each branch and their placements look much, much better. I mean, UBC Sauder school of Business had placements in the 4 years for {Michigan, Chicago Booth, Michigan, USC, UC Irvine, Waterloo, UWO, UofOttawa}. These placements are amazing, and include ALL of their 8 students from 2006-2009. I had an offer to this program, but rather chose Cornell Econ, which has ok placements. In general, most Business schools have great, great placements. I also enjoy the applied stuff much more than I do enjoy theory. Did I make the right choice? Why do people go for Economics departments as opposed to Business departments? Is there a catch at B-schools, which makes them less compelling? I know this has been discussed previously, but I haven't found many opinions regarding this issue. It just goes beyond my understanding why people go for straight Econ (i.e. harder coursework, smaller pay, worst placements in general)

Yes, I don't think the Norwegians are as low as top 150. Still, I find it weird, given that I was given funding at 3 top 20 institutions and that this was my ultra safety option. But... I wouldn't ever assume that I am overqualified to go there...

Monks! Did you also manage to get a last minute Sage? Or you had it from the beginning? In any case, I am also heading to Cornell! PM me! By the way, did you already get the admission letter after accepting the offer? I haven't!

hahahahahahahhahahaha, my bad!!!!! Walt, you get rep points for this!

I just wanted to get to know my future classmates. I didn't have a chance to go to the Flyouts, so it would be great to hear your opinions about the program! Shall we create a facebook club? or just keep it rolling in this forum? In any case, I look forward to meeting you guys in September!

Highest Ranked Admit: Cornell ($$$) Lowest Ranked Rejection: Norwegian School of Economics (top 150) I think I beat you all!