IMTB

One question I asked during my visits and conversations is the population of economics students in the finance program in terms of advising, office space, job placement tools, etc. I asked this because though I am all for maximizing utility (applying to other programs, maybe easier programs, and making connections to a tougher program, i.e., economics to finance, marketing to economics, etc.) I care when it hurts in my effort of maximization. From the responses I heard most schools and finance students ask these questions. Every year there are 3-4 economics students that 'act' like finance students but only about 0-1 per year get the finance department's full attention. Usually those who enter in economics but placed in finance appeal to professors jointly appointed, usually started as an economics professor and use them as an advisor. Others are just stars who find out they like finance. I am not sure how the economics department feels about this but I would not make it public until you are accepted by the finance fold. With that said I think most applicants diversify so nothing is strange there. Apply to the top 20, 50, 100 (depending on your profile) of both disciplines. I would probably apply to more finance programs in the end.

There is no doubt that you go to the school if you get off the waitlist, I don't care if the first week of classes are underway. We are talking about five years later: a) they probably will not remember/care and b) everyone understands, at least in economics, maximizing one's utility. Any school that gets mad over this is ridiculous, unless you went around saying that school X was your top choice and then you leave, which means you lied and I too would make note of your name. I agree that academia is a small circle, but let us not get carried away. Even if you torch a bridge, you are not runing your career come job market time, especially if you are a female and get married (and change your name by then). Saying that this would hurt your career is assuming you will try and place at that school or a school one of those professors who knew what you did moved to in that time frame. Hopefully, if this is a rank move, you will be placed above the school in question. My only concern is how you sold yourself, i.e. if you said school X, Y, Z, etc. was the end all be all for you and you were meant to study there then you will look like a jerk. However, if you went about it in a normal manner everyone understands the game. If most of those professors got an offer from Harvard the day before they started they would leave. Think about your future first, and worry about the burnt bridges later.

I will be honest, I think of ranking first and foremost, unless we are talking about a school in Antarctica. You may also want to consider cost of living. The cost of living in Ithaca is cheaper than that of the other three, which would sway me greatly. I would also think the funding there has to be >= to the other three as well. Also, you are near Cooperstown (Baseball HOF), Syracuse (Fun town), and Rochester (Could be a resource). In conclusion, I think you will enjoy it because so much of your time will be at the school, especially if you are single. Location is very personal so it is an introspective question, however, that is what I would do if I were choosing. Maybe ask people who know you?

I am going to enter a top 5 finance phd program and I would be lying if I said I understood what this is suppose to mean, I wonder if I am in trouble?. There is no doubt that your best route is the top 10, so I agree with rsaylors on that point, and here is why: NO ONE brands you in academia, for the most part, you brand yourself. What I mean is, if you publish in JF as a PhD student you may even be in better position than the finance cohort at your school. Do not get me wrong, you have to do some work to get into the finance fold, you cannot just say, "Here I am!" However, if you RA for a finance professor (the more famous the better), get a publication (hopefully), take some classes to build your foundation (along with attending seminars), and make sure your 'management' work has a finance base then you should be in good shape. Also, it is important to note that your school may have 1-2 finance 'stars' so on the job market you probably will not compete with them, but maybe you will. However, you then have a decision to make take: take a top 20 placement in 'management' and continue your research with a finance slant, maybe even get a courtesy position in the finance group (especially if you like teaching the stuff), or take a top 50 in a finance department. I would choose the former because I think you can quench your thirst from that seat. If you picked to go to the top 50-60 finance program you would probably have less training, even as a proper finance student, and you would, most likely, not get placed inside the top 50. Therefore, unless you get a top 20-25 finance offer I would go to the 'management' program, and even if you do get into a top 20-25 fnance program I do not think it that finance program is the definite choice. In the end, if you want/get placed at a top 20 teaching is an afterthought, and it is usually 1-2 classes per year so nothing will change research wise and if you want/get a top 50 then your possibilities open up. I think most schools confer to you a PhD in Management and you have a specialization, therefore, you can play this many ways. Who knows, you may be taking the smart route by picking and choosing the classes and comps you want to take and getting a similar outcome. I completely agree with rthunder, who it seems even did something similar to you in applying, applied to both management programs and finance and ended up in finance, therefore, I would assume no matter where he went he would be doing some finance type work. In my conversations at HBS, Chicago, Yale, etc they all said it would very common to 'cross-pollinate', and many students have people from multiple departments on their committee. I personally think this is where research is moving, you need to know multiple views and methodologies to be most effective, that is pure conjecture though.

I will 'try' and answer, though there is no answer. I was accepted at a good amount of the top 10 and had 1 'famous' letter and 2 letters from known professors. I went to a top 5 UG so I am not sure if this varies, however, all I did was really take an interest first semester and got into research by my second semester. I also lived on campus in the summer and continued to help which showed dedication (even though I had internships 2 of my first 3 summers), offered to help the TAs and professor with grading and such until I was an official TA. Then when it was that time I asked for letters and all three actually showed me the letter and basically asked for my approval. I think once you gain respect they will write great letters for you and basically throw in a line that says 'X is as good as the Y students I have written a recommendation for, and have been accepted, into your program, such as A, B, C, D, and E.' It really helps if someone in A-E is attending. If a professor really likes you and believes in you they may say, 'This is one of the top 3 people I have ever written a recommendation for and 8 of my students have been accepted there.' In short, hard work gets you those letters. Being willing to help conduct study sessions, grade, TA, and RA. Writing a thesis is a way to get to know people you may not know and showoff your determination, however, the former ways, IMO, work best.

Every school is different; I in no way was trying to say this is canon. It is merely my observation from a top 5 UG and the top 5 finance phd I am entering. Maybe econ is different?, doubtful. I would think UMD and GW probably just have a better relationship than my example of Harvard and Suffolk.

Everyone knows that in Cambridge if you want to learn you go to MIT, and the hardest part of Harvard programs is getting in, then it is all downhill. Therefore, Harvard is easier. :)

I meant more the AP skew than CF, I think many schools are CF or about even, and there are a few, of course, that are AP skewed. I only consider OSU and BC (barely at that), of the schools you mentioned, in the top 25. If your goal is CF then I would say BC, OSU, and Emory are above Katz for CF, and BC and OSU have some AP work going on. I would consider Katz above Vandy. As for Berkeley, I agree it has an AP skew but I would put it at (80/20) actually, but Haas is an interesting case because it is very small, but there are some interesting people in the econ department. Overall, I think the program is overrated and I would not put the finance portion of it in my top 25, which may not agree with many. The econ group really helps its overall prestige.

I cannot comment without knowing the schools, I apologize. Simply because at some schools the line between AP/CF is close (50/50) while at others it is heavily skewed (90/10). Therefore, I would go where I could get the highest placement and offered me the most well-rounded experience. There are very few schools ranked 18-25 that do not have a pretty well rounded approach so I am confused on that end. The only one I can really think of is CMU, therefore, your ranking of the 'other schools' may be off or the line at these other schools is (60/40) and you are internally over emphasizing the difference.

There was a post regarding taking classes at other Boston-based schools while attending Suffolk University, and I was going to reply there but thought it better to make it an independent discussion. I do not think that any student should make a decision on a school based on being close to another school, especially if the rank separating those schools is wide. Smaller schools will try and sell you by saying, “oh, since you are in NYC you can take classes at NYU and Columbia; we have had this happen in the past.” If you are sold this line of reasoning ask when this happened, were there any unusual circumstances, and has anyone in the current cohorts done so; if so go talk to that person and ask the same questions. The reason for this is because this usually does not happen and if it does it is usually under unusual circumstances. I will use Suffolk in my generic example though I have no intimate knowledge of the program: A student from Suffolk took a class at Harvard. This could be because a) the student knows the professor somehow, b) the student went to Harvard UG, c) the student/a professor at Suffolk has been pestering the professor at Harvard, d) it is one of the more undesirable classes and there is space anyway, maybe even in a more forgiving department. I would be very surprised if a SU student was sitting in on a popular Harvard/MIT/BC/BU class unless a or b was in play. Though getting into a class at BU or BC would be a lot easier. So be very careful if someone tries to use this as a selling point, they should be selling their program, not someone else's. On the other side some programs have cross-registration or formal agreements, such as Harvard and MIT, Chicago and Northwestern, and NYU and Columbia (though this one is the least formal) which means students can just sign up for a class and are only denied if there is no more space (though there is a chance to over enroll), while if you go to the school in question over enrollment is sometimes possible. These students even do research; have professors on their committee, etc. In the end I still would not recommend going to Northwestern because you always wanted to go to Chicago and got denied. I would use this only as a benefit where you can take courses, meet faculty, do research etc because at the end of the day you belong to your school and no one will like it if you are off always at the other school, save for taking a few classes, sitting in on seminars, 1-2 close research relationships, etc. It really helps when only 1-2 faculty members of one school meet your interests while the other school has more faculty members with similar interests, then you can get the best of both worlds. Lastly, though it may sound wrong, you also do not want to be the pesky lower-ranked student who is always at the better schools. So you would have to be prepared to sit in the back during seminar and try and keep your comments to only the intelligent variety or people may think, “we won’t let someone from that school take a class here again.” Also, though I do not agree, people may not want to study with you if you are not in their network of schools.

Did you apply leaning towards Theo AP? I ask because it seems like there are some similiarly ranked schools, such as CMU, that you could have gotten into and been a better match research wise. However, given your interest, and the rankings (who knows what they will look like in 5-10 years), I would aim at Rochester, I am assuming it is the Simon program. As it was stated above, business programs do nuture, especially when compared to Econ programs. Also, Rochester, even though it is decllining, and is a shadow of its past (which was a top 5-15 school), though always an underdog, is better than Indiana and Rice, IMO. I think Rochester can also make a move back to the top. One thing to note is Simon's finance program is very small, and I have heard of the high 'attrition', though these same people tell me it is the student's personal choice and not academic. See if you can find one of these people, if it is truly for personal reasons the department should at least try to put you in contact. I also think the faculty at Simon will be better at preparing you for research, publication, placement, etc.

To me, this is a non-issue for a few reasons, though I do agree that schools want to be ranked as high as possible: 1) Publications is only a piece of MBA rankings, I have heard that things such as % employed 6 months before graduating, and overall, as well as starting salary is heavily weighted. 2) These are the journals that you should want to be publishing in, though I will admit that there are some base discipline journals that the list is missing 3) The schools that instructs you, and employs you, will have its own list, though most are not public. Your own discipline journals on this list will make up the 'A' list for most top 75 programs. Katz is one of the only schools I know that publicly lists what it considers an 'A' Journal: http://www.business.pitt.edu/katz/phd/research/a-list.php (it is also nice to use because they are a lower ranked program). Of the 44 or so, 27 are on the FT45, and if your finance, like I am, all of the Katz Finance 'A's' are on the list so publishing somewhere else would be considered just OK anyway (though the chicken or the egg argument could be used). Many of the journals that Katz uses that are not on the FT45, I have never even heard of in a general sense. There are a few that are not in the FT45 that I would consider a very nice pub, such as Review of Economic Studies, however, for the most part this list is pretty much spot on for anyone aiming for a top 75 placement (like Katz), and it is 99.9% accurate for anyone wanting to be at a top 40. Now, if your goal is below top 75, which is fine, your school probably does not care much about rankings anyway and they would probably only expect, if any, 1 'A' journal in your 'before tenure' stage, so the list is not important in those cases. Therefore, in conclusion, if you want a top placement, your school's list may even be a subset of what applies to your field in the FT45; if you want a good placement, your school's list will closely mirror the FT45, and if you want just a decent placement, your school probably does not care much about the FT45. My biggest gripe is that it is missing some base discipline stuff, but I am not surprised that it is missing such journals. PS - You should be happy because from a Marketing perspective the FT45 seems to include every journal on Katz's list, therefore, if you are aiming at a Katz type school or above you would have the same list, and if you are aiming below, the list would not probably matter.

First, welcome! Second, everyone always has a shot at something so stay positive! Your age, may hurt, even though programs act like it is not a factor, it is from what I have heard. However, 30-31 is not too old to start at all, and you cannot fix this part of your profile so do not dwell on it. I would mention your reasoning in your SOP, for doing a BA over again because adcoms may wonder, but hopefully this is not a sticking point. You have a good profile, and should apply broadly. Make sure to do well on your GRE, Q >= 790 and V >=550 (most programs do not care, they just want it above some very low score, though the higher the score the better, but do not waste time on memorizing vocabulary). Your area of target is the best because it has a great concentration of schools and programs. One thing you might want to research is UMASS, since it is a heterodoxal program, though you may have interests. What is your GPA in math, have you taken any economics in the US, any graduate courses, RA experience? What are your plans for the next year? If it is working, hopefully it is something research related. If not, try to take at least 1 course in grad econ or Real Analysis and/or see if you can get a paid, or volunteer RA assignment. If you get a solid GRE Q, and do none of this, you will be in decent shape, remember admissions is random. Again, apply broadly. Once you apply to one school it is only marginal effort to apply to a lot, so go for it all. I wouldn't waste time applying to Chicago if you do not want to move there, but if Boston is your ideal location you better apply to MIT and Harvard. If you want to only apply next to your girlfriend: BU, BC, UMASS, UCONN, Yale, Harvard, MIT, URI, Brown - Also apply to applicable business schools, though harder, you may have a chance such as BC Finance, UMASS Finance, UCONN Finance, Yale SOM Finance, HBS Business Econ, and MIT Finance. If you just want to be close to your girlfriend: NYU, Columbia, CUNY, UPenn, Temple, Rochester, etc. My final piece of advice is, after you nail the GRE, closer to next fall start to contact a few professors at some key schools (Near Boston, those you have a huge research fit at, or safeties you would definitely attend) and go on some informal visits, sit in on a seminar, meet the program head, etc. This will bump you up a few places (works best outside the top 5, i.e., if you are a top 50 candidate, maybe a top 30-40 will take notice of your offerings and passion). Good luck!

I disagree about Pitt, a little. It is an empirical corporate program, not doubt. However, I do not think Pitt has been placing above its rank, I would think it is below: Marquette University Iowa State University Marquette University Miami University of Ohio Bentley College Kansas State University Georgia Tech University of Arkansas I would say Pitt places below/at its ranking. I see there is also 1-2 students on the market, do you know if any of them have an offer yet? This would help judge the program. I think Pitt has the ability to place above, I like some of the work from there, however, it has not to this point. Do you have other offers? Knowing if an offer is good for someone is tough without knowing the alternative.