ReasonGRE

I hadn’t looked at this thread in a while so I missed the question that you asked Afternoon Tea. You are probably long gone, but in case this is still relevant, here’s my 2 cents: The quant sections of the GMAT and GRE are pretty similar…the GMAT is harder and the 2 tests have 2 different question types (DS on the GMAT and QC on the GRE), but in terms of the problem solving questions its pretty similar. There are actually some statistical concepts that are tested on the GRE that don’t appear on the GMAT, but aside from this omission and aside from the difference in level of difficulty I think its actually useful to use GMAT PS questions, especially if you have exhausted most of the GRE questions out there. The PS questions in the GMAT official guide go in order of difficulty, so if you do the questions that are in the easy to medium range they are a pretty good proxy for GRE questions. Just be aware that you will miss some of the statistical and data analysis stuff and that you are not doing any quantitative comparisons. I also think that if you ran out of Reading Comp stuff for the GRE, GMAT RC passages in the Official Guide are not a bad substitue. I would avoid the passages that are really business/econ related and be aware that some of the question types on the GRE don’t appear on the GMAT (like vocab in context, and select all that apply), but stylistically the passages are very similar and most of the question types can be found on the GRE as well.

Thanks Taylor for sending along the supplements. I wanted to respond publicly on this thread for whoever is interested in knowing more about the supplements. They are indeed much better than everything else out there that I have seen from other test prep companies and are also an improvement on what was in the Manhattan GRE books themselves, so I am very pleased to see some questions that come much closer to mimicking the types of questions that are on the GRE. The sentences definitely get at the reasoning/critical thinking aspects of the exam, something that is missing from most other non-ETS materials out there, so they are a good additional source for questions. In my opinion, the vocab is still on the hard side and I think that one can expect slightly easier vocab on the actual test, but the questions in the supplements are really a big improvement over the ones that were originally in the Manhattan GRE books and the vocab in particular is much more reasonable and much closer to the mark. If I had to recommend questions outside of the ETS book (i.e., if you have exhausted those questions....which won't take very long!!!) I would definitely recommend using these over any other material that is out there.

Just get the Kaplan premier book. It is $20 on amazon and you get access to 5 tests.

For practice tests (and this is a good way to work on timing) I like Kaplan and ManhattanGRE. They are not perfect and are certainly not as accurate as Powerprep, but if you need additional practice, these are the ones I would probably use. The ManhattanGRE ones are definitely harder than the real exam, sometimes in unrealistic ways (like ridiculous vocab and quant questions that are beyond what you would see on the exam), but they are pretty good tests. For example, I had like 5 wrong on the MGRE test I took but 0 wrong on the actual GRE. There were some glitches with the tests when I used them last (it gave me a quant score of -2!!!) but they may have ironed those issues out by now.And on the topic of how to do math questions faster, I think part of this comes from doing lost of questions and just getting better at recognizing how best to approach different questions. But its also about time management and understanding that every question is worth the same amount so it doesn't make sense to spend lots of time on any question. The nice thing about the new exam is that you can skip questions and go back and you get bet that most test takers don't properly utilize this functionality so you give yourself a big advantage over other GRE folks if you do!

That's a really good question. Periodically they need to update the percentiles because overtime they tend to shift. For example, 500 on the old GRE was well below 50th percentile even though 500 was the middle score on the 200 to 800 scale. That wasn't always the case. I don't know if it was ever 50th percentile, but that was probably the aim initially. But as people prepare harder and get better at understanding how to improve on the test, the percentiles start to creep up so that more and more people have higher scores. That was actually part of the motivation for recalibrating the test. But unless I am mistaken, your percentile will stay what it is on the score report. Even if it were to change (and again I don't think it does) it would be a tiny shift. Its a long process for the percentiles to shift in big ways.

I guess if you had a ton of time to devote to GRE Prep and you wanted to play around with Data Sufficiency for the challenge of it, it would be good practice in the art of Quantitative reasoning. And Data Sufficiency has some similarities to QC's (answer choice D on QC's is essentially the same concept as DS). But Data Sufficiency really presents its own unique challenges as well, so I think a person would do much better to just focus on Quantitative Comparisons and the specific ways that one can attack those questions. Again, I think it would only make sense for someone who is preparing so much for the GRE that they need lots of extra material and want to try Data Sufficiency partly for the challenge of it, but it wouldn't be the most efficient way to prepare for the GRE, in my opinion, and could definitely confuse some people.

Irene, like Tex said, 164 is an excellent score. It equates to a 790 on the old exam. Its a little confusing because 166 to 170 all equate to 800...this is because the new GRE is a bit harder than the old one, allowing for greater differentiation among top scorers, but 164 is still a great score. And the reason you can know the percentile is because you are not being compared to people who took the test on that day or something like that (a la the SAT). You are being compared to people who have taken the test since the new administration began, so the computer can instantly give you a score and a percentile to go with it. Tex, I'm not an admissions expert, but I think your chances should be very good. Good luck!!!

Good luck tex. I don't know what kinds of programs you are applying to, but anecdotally, when I first took the GRE (12 years ago) I got very high Quant and Analytical scores (back then there was a multiple choice analytical section) but a mediocre Verbal score. I applied to PhD programs in History and although there was one school I didn't get into, the one that I actually attended gave me a special fellowship, in part because of my high GRE scores, despite the fact that I had just an ok Verbal score. ANd obviously for a PhD program in history, the Verbal score was the one they were most interested in. This is all to say that although your Verbal score is not fantastic, your Quant score is, and that may be enough to get you into the program(s) of your choice.

Hey Tex. Sorry you are disappointed, but congrats on a very good score. Obviously the Quant in particular is quite high! Its interesting to read your feedback since I know you were concerned about how similar the ETS material would be to the actual test, and the Powerprep test in particular. And I'm glad to see that you agreed that those materials were really similar to the test and that in the end the Quant felt easy. I'm not sure if the score you got was similar to what the Powerprep gave you, but at least the questions were! Its funny how hard some of the test prep companies make their questions...freaks people out, but unnecessarily so. Anyway congrats on a really good score.

I think its pretty comparable. If you did well on the PowerPrep I think you should be pretty optimistic. I'd be curious to hear what others think, but that is my opinion.

Hey arctic belle. That's a pretty amazing score too, so congratulations. The first thing I'd recommend is that you get a better sense for what score you need for the schools you are thinking of applying to. 170V and 165Q is nearly through the roof, so its hard for me to imagine a school not be happy with those score, but I suppose if you were applying for engineering programs and wanted to get into the #1 school, maybe you'd like to have a slightly higher quant, although it obviously can't go much higher. And if you do retake, you have to consider the possibility that your Verbal might not be 170 again, and although schools might just take your highest section scores, others will just take your best overall score on one administration or maybe even your most recent. If you do decide to retake, I'd recommend is that you use the free diagnostic service that ETS offers in order to get a look at your test and what type of questions you got wrong, time spent, etc, so that you can focus in on your weaknesses. I blogged about it on my website so feel free to take a look, but I think this would be a very important step. In terms of harder quant, there is so little really good material out there for the new test in my opinion. Using GMAT questions wouldn't be a bad idea, but like PEMDAS said, you'll need to stick only with the Problem Solving questions....don't even look at Data Sufficiency because its a totally different animal. If you do want to use GMAT questions, I would recommend the Official Guide, since it is real GMAT questions that have been retired. The explanations in that book are a little lacking, however, so if you do use the OG, you might want to get ManhattanGMAT's OG companion, which gives better explanations to all the Quant questions in the OG. Just keep in mind that you won't be doing Quantitative Comparisons at all and that there are a few statistical/data analysis things that appear on the new GRE but that do not appear on the GMAT, so there might be a few gaps there as well.

LightningRod, the test is section adaptive because although you will have a range of questions on each section, from easy to hard, the second section will have a slightly greater proportion of easy, medium, or hard, depending on how you do on the first section. That second section will then be weighted more heavily or less heavily depending on the proportion of easy, medium, or hard questions on it. I wrote a blog post about this on my website that you may want to take a look at...I go into some detail there about how adaptive the sections actually are, based on my experience on the test. My second quant section wasn't that much harder (a fact that is backed up by the diagnostic that ETS offers), despite the fact that I didn't get any questions wrong, so you might think that its just a function of the number of questions correct. But unless ETS is lying, if that second section does have a higher proportion of hard questions, then you are getting more credit for right answers on that section.

Hey Sporadic. First, regarding TexasGuy's suggestion, its an interesting idea to completely skip a particular section to negate the effect of a potentially lower score on that section and I've never really thought about it that way, but i'm not sure if I would do that. Many schools will take your highest score, or sometimes your most recent test, but they might not take a Verbal score from one test and a Quant from another so I don't know if I would play around with that. You might just go for it again and if you don't score higher, most schools will probably just take your highest anyway. If you are thinking of retaking, a few suggestions....One is to get a look at the free diagnostic that ETS provides....I blogged about this on my website (I posted about it on the forum too but I think I provided more info in my blog) so feel free to take a look, but the short of it is that you'll be able to see what type of questions you got wrong and, more importantly, the amount of time spent on each question. And that leads me to my second suggestion...if you retake, I would spend some more time taking practice tests to hone the art of time management on the new test. The ability to skip around and mark questions is a really big advantage if used right, but its something you need to practice. And to answer your question, all of the questions are worth the same amount (within a particular section) so there is really no reason to spend undue time on something that you are struggling with for whatever reason, no matter whether its a hard question or an easy one....again, this gets back to the art of time management and making sure that you use your time wisely to maximize your potential and your score.

I don't think that schools will necessarily explain on their website that they will take the average. They may, but they also may not mention anything, so again I think the safe thing to do is call and inquire. I recently tutored a girl who told me that she contacted the school that she was applying to and although there was no mention of it on their website, she was told that they will average her scores! Also, regarding looking at the aggregate, I am sure that some schools will do that. But its my understanding that a lot of the time the people making the decision might not even look at the score report. They will see the score that you enter into your application, but very often its an administrative assistant who verifies that score, etc., so I don't think that the number of times a person has taken the exam is usually held against them.

Hey ANDS. I would encourage you to do some reconnaissance, both on the question of a retake and the issue of your scores and whether they are adequate. Look at the program's website and see if you can get any information there. If not, contact the program office and ask them. They should tell you their policy on multiple scores and whether they take the average or the highest. They may also tell you that they weight certain sections more heavily or that they don't consider a particular section at all.

And just to chime in on the solution. I am not absolutely sure because this question is out of control, but I am pretty sure that shabbirahsan has it right. I don't know that I would have been able to do this algebraically, and I certainly couldn't have done it in 2 minutes or 3 minutes or even 5 minutes, but I believe that what he (or she?) posted is correct algebraically. Although 12km/hr seems right logically, if you try to calculate with that number you will see that it doesn't work, and that's because both the biker and the column are moving, so you have to consider how they are moving relative to each other. If the biker is going 12km/hr and the column is going 6km/hr, then the biker will catch up to the front of the column at 6km/hr (12-6). At that rate, it will take the full 1/6 of an hour to reach the front. If his rate is 18km/hr, the biker will catch the front of the column at 12km/hr, so that will happen in 1/12 of an hour (or 5 mins) but when he is headed back to the back of the column he will go super fast (6 + 18, or 24km/hr), so it will take him much less than 5 minutes to reach the back and so his total time will not be 10 minutes or 1/6 of an hour. If you do it with the roughly 14.5km/hr that you get in shabbirahsan's solution, you'll see that he will reach the front in about 7 mins and the back in an about 3 mins for the correct total of 10 mins. The algebra yields a quadratic equation that doesn't even have integer solutions and so would require the quadratic formula (something that I don't think would ever happen on a GRE question) This question is just ridiculously difficult. Its fun to think about, but unless I am completely mistaken, you could never see this on the GRE.

Hey guys. I know that this might just be an exercise in trying to solve a challenging problem, but for what its worth (and since the title of the thread is "is it possible to solve this") I just want to point out that it wouldn't be possible to see this on the GRE (at least not in my opinion). I think this goes beyond what you could see, and probably goes beyond what you could see on the GMAT too, which has a significantly harder Quant section. Just don't want any of you to worry that you need to be able to solve something like this.

A lot of schools will take the highest scores, but some will average them, so you should contact the programs and just ask to make sure. People tend to be afraid to contact program offices, but you will probably just be speaking with a secretary, not the adcom, so reach out to them and find out.

Also, remember that the GRE is a thinking exam, not a Math exam. So you need to really think before you do. If you are not sure about how you are going to answer a question, consider that it might be better to skip the question and go back to it. And even if you have a sense for how to answer it, try not to knee-jerk down a particular path without first deciding if that is the best path for you. You face a decision point on every question....once you make your decision about how to approach the question, from there on out it is more about execution, but the test is really about the reasoning that you use to decide on an approach, so don't reflexively start "answering" a question without first giving yourself a chance to use your critical thinking ability to craft an approach or maybe even choose to skip what might be a low percentage question for you.

Sure. Good luck on the exam....will obviously be interested in hearing your thoughts on all of this when you are finished with the exam....hope you knock it out of the park!

I can't personally speak to the level of difficulty of the Kaplan tests having not taken them, although I have looked at some of the questions (questions answered wrong by the people I have tutored). However, I think the test in the back of the OG is a pretty good approximation of the actual test, as is the Powerprep II. That is my opinion, but I actually think that some of the Quant questions in the OG are harder than most or all of what I saw on my test. Verbal was pretty much the same to me....maybe the stuff on the test was a tad harder, but it seemed pretty equal to me. So I think if you do well on the official ETS materials, you will be in good shape on the actual test. I would add that based on my diagnostic from my actual GRE (I recently posted in a separate thread about the free diagnostic feature offered by ETS) it is clear that the second math section was not that much harder than the first, a fact that matches what I felt when I was taking the exam. I am able to see the level of difficulty of all the questions on the 2 math sections and although there is a higher percentage of harder questions, the difference is not that drastic and there were still some easy and medium level questions on the "harder" section. So again, Econ, I wouldn't over-analyze what is happening on the Kaplan tests and the fact that the later sections are so much harder. This was not my experience on the actual exam. One more thing that reiterates what I wrote earlier.....obviously you want to do your best to prepare for the exam, but you have to take the practice tests with a grain of salt. Getting a ballpark figure is helpful, but the purpose should be to practice on the computer, to deal with the timing factor and the functionality of the testing format, and to get an idea of your weaknesses when you are thrown a variety of different questions in random order. If you use the tests for these purposes and make sure to do all of the questions in the OG, including the test at the back, then your score on the actual test is going to be what its going to be. You'll have done what you could to prepare, but the score on the non-ETS practice tests are never going to be super accurate, so try not to focus too much on that.

I would agree with PEMDAS about not relying too heavily on the score output that the Kaplan tests give you….again I am not as familiar with the new tests, but based on the old ones, the tests would give you a decent general ballpark for where you would score. Non-official practice tests are good for 2 general things in my opinion. Working on time management and the new features of the test (like the mark and review features) and getting an idea about your weaknesses (if you get every geometry question wrong, you obviously have some work to do on Geometry). The questions (especially the Verbal) will not be great substitutes for the actual ones and the score output will definitely not be as accurate. Unfortunately there is only one Powerprep test, so that is all we have at the moment for actual tests, but that is the only one that is really going to replicate the exam, both in terms of the questions and the score. The paper test in the back of the official guide, though not computer based, is probably the next most accurate in my opinion. I would disagree, however, about using the ManhattanGMAT tests or doing any Data Sufficiency whatsoever. Using the GMAT official guide for Problem Solving questions might be a good way to see some harder quant questions, but you’d be missing QC and Data Interpretation entirely. Data Sufficiency, in my opinion, is an animal unto itself, and I would not start doing DS in preparation for the GRE. And unfortunately, if you do the MGMAT tests, you are going to be doing half DS questions, not to mention working on a totally different time frame (75 mins and 37 questions). I have taken the new ManhattanGRE tests and I would definitely recommend them as an alternative to the Kaplan tests. They are a little bit glitchy (had some problems accessing them and I also received a score of -2 for the Quant on one of my tests, LOL), but they are pretty good tests. Again, the questions aren’t great stand-ins for the real questions (the quant was definitely harder than the actual test….on my MGRE tests I got a handful of quant questions wrong but on the actual exam I got none wrong), but they suffice and the score prediction I got was pretty close to my actual score (tech support was able to give me an actual score for that Quant section). Still, though, I would use them more for time management purposes and to get an idea of your weaknesses….I would take the score prediction as a ballpark figure and not read too much into it.

I have only limited experience with these new tests and that is mainly from going over them with people I have tutored. I have not taken them personally. However, I have always thought that Kaplan's tests are among the best out there, both in terms of the authenticity of the questions and the score prediction it gives you. Nothing beats the tests released by the test maker, so I am talking specifically about tests made by test prep companies, but Kaplan's tests for the old GRE were pretty realistic in my opinion. But I generally wouldn't read too much into the score....it will put you in the ballpark, but not be hyper-accurate. Definitely use the Powerprep II software for the most accurate score prediction.

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but I just discovered a diagnostic service that ETS offers for the revised GRE. Hope this is helpful to many of you out there. I just blogged about it, so rather than write it all over again, I am just pasting most of what I wrote... ETS now offers a free diagnostic service that allows you to see exactly how many questions you got wrong on each section, the difficulty level of the questions you got right and wrong, and even the content category of the questions right and wrong (i.e., Arithmetic, Algebra, Geometry, Data Interpretation on the Quant side and RC, Sentence Equivalence, Text Completions on the Verbal side). It even shows the amount of time spent on each question. I must say, ETS is definitely going out of their way to make this a user-friendly test. I’m sure that was the motivation behind the mark and review functionality, the ability to skip questions, etc., but this diagnostic feature is definitely an extremely useful tool. For test takers who did not score as well as they had hoped, its now possible to really hone in on what the main problem areas were and even to get a look at time management issues. It's really a great feature that any person who is thinking of taking the GRE again should take a look at! The url is https://grediagnostic.ets.org/GREDWeb/gred/signIn.jsp

I think those are final, Nocturnal.