HetEcon

Well, I might as well weigh-in on the subject, since I was once in this same position. Furthermore, the advice given thus far doesn't seem adequate for your situation. First of all, as usual, take into account that much of the advice you will/have received is good-intentioned, but ultimately, you have to understand that this advice is biased and completely subjective (including mine). But, since I was in your position, I feel compelled to share my insight from experience and the choices that I came across, as well as my rationale. You have a few options and you should not limit yourself to pursuing any one, but you should take a stab at each and see where the chips fall. All options are assuming that your first priority is PhD placement. First Option: Apply to an MA school in Canada (I am assuming that you are from the U.S., since no one else ever mentions that they are from a state school unless such is the case), since these programs are a bit more rigorous than many U.S. school's masters programs (and as you are probably aware, there is a very limited number of MA-only programs, but more on that later). Europe is always an option, but competition at schools that will be worth the cost of such a move is probably a little tougher than schools in Canada (and competition in Canada is pretty tough). Placement into good PhD programs is great and you should have a great chance for funding, granted you do well. Some schools to look into: UBC, U of T, McGill, Carleton, Queens Second Option: Apply directly into mid-range econ PhD programs. Most others will advise against this option, assuming that only top-ranked schools offer a road to success. But, be aware, what mid-range schools lack in pedigree, you can make up by sheer ambition (e.g. by making a mark at your progam of choice by consistently getting involved in research, making a strong network with the faculty, who, for the most part, came from top-ranked schools and still maintain important connections at other schools). Research is the key to placement after the PhD, and I would argue that the school you came from comes in at a distant second (this is debatable, but I am certain that many would agree). Furthermore, funding may be easier to come by and smaller schools often allow you to work closer with faculty members (and faculty should always be a major factor in your final decision regarding where you ultimately want to study at). Finally, if you decide that the PhD is not for you, most programs offer a MA if you complete a certain amount of work. Third Option: Apply to one of the few US terminal MA programs in econ. The list of schools that justify this option is rather short (as shown by your own list of options), but that does not mean you should rule this option out. MA programs are dissapearing, and MA programs that offer funding are all but gone. But, there are a couple that I should mention that should be at the top of this short-list. One is Miami Ohio (and no, you won't find the program in most rankings, but the school itself is amongst the top-30 for public schools in US News), who offers funding and has quite a good placement history into top econ PhD programs. Second is Georgia State (through their A.Y. Schoolof Policy Studies). I have heard great things about this program from a few people currently pursuing thier MAs there. They offer a ton of funding (Their econ program is in the top 10 for R&D, which puts them alongside the very best programs), because they receive an incredible amount of endowments, they have above average faculty, and they have great placement. A good way to find other MA-only programs is to look at some state schools (investigate their funding options, their placement history, etc.), or even some smaller private schools (like Tufts, as you have found). Other options: include venturing into public policy programs. These are pretty hot programs, and they love econ students (due to the growing importance of a technical background). You will not be limited to the MA, since there are a number of great schools that offer PhDs (Chicago and Berkeley come to mind). You can always pursue the PhD after an MA in econ, as well, which might give you an even better shot at the top policy programs. Surely I have left out some stuff, but this should give you an idea of your options. Realistically, your best option is to go with the carpet-bombing approach, and take your shot at as many schools (within each option) as possible. This is expensive and time consuming, but you are talking about a huge committment that has an incredible impact on your future.

There are a few people from Canada on this site that may be able to offer some advice on transfers, so hopefully someone can answer this question. Good luck on the GRE when you do take it. It is unfortunate that there is such an emphasis on the damn exam, but what can you do. Lastly, what area are of theory are you interested in? I've always liked (early) Rawls myself, as well as more modern political theory. Good Luck

Although I am a econ guy, I am engaged to a 4th year poli-sci grad student and I am somewhat familiar with the poli-sci area. So, first I would say that verbal is the most important section of the GRE for you, and a 90th percentile score would prove most advantageous (this translates to scores above 630, I would guess). Even though theory is your field, you would need to show that you can handle the methodology courses, and thus a score above 700 in the quantitative should be sufficient, although, of course, a score above 750 would not be uncommon for Ivy Leagues. And lastly, I would not neglect the analytical section, although this area is of the least importance for almost every other applicant, a good showing on this section is almost equally neccesary (I would aim for the 5.5). If time is an issue, study for the V and Q sections the most, and just familiarize yourself with the general format that the grading committee will be looking for for the analytical section (be aware of different fallacy types, etc.). Summary: Verbal Goal 630+ Quantitative Goal 700-750+ AW Goal 5.5+ As far as a Masters goes, forgo this option. It is not like econ where the time for an MA can be justified. It will really serve you no purpose and should be a last resort. Also, you might want to also consider UC San Diego, UCLA, Berkeley, and Stanford for West coast alternatives. Best of luck and Cheers.

Nope, nothing to worry about. If anything, the addition of another language just makes you more well rounded and, although the primary focus will be on your maths and econs, the language classes will just be the cherry on top (so long as you stay within the B range for those courses). Cheers

InSearchOfTheFuture, THIS IS A MUCH NEEDED TOPIC OF DISCUSSION. First, so long as you are passionate about your area of choice (be it economic thought, economic history, or whatever), you will surely succeed. Yes, this area is far less marketable at first look, but taking into consideration that many current grads are focused on more technical, mathematically rigorous areas, you will be competing in a job-market (post-PhD) that is far less saturated. Furthermore, you will be well-equiped to teach those economic thought and history courses (which are still requirements in most programs and nearly all liberal art economics programs), as well as principles and intermediate theory courses. Right now, although there are some who are entirely unaware of the very dilemma you are facing (that of a philosophical nature), the issue regarding an over-emphasis on the application of mathematics to economics (which is a social science at its core) is a hot topic amongst many theorists and economic philosophers. A good example of this can be found at the following website (Look at the Harvard and Cambridge petitions for instance): http://www.paecon.net Furthermore, if you are interested in programs that either offer specializations in your areas, or at least are sympathetic to the nature of you inquiry, you might find the following website helpful: http://www.hetecon.com Finally, regarding my viewpoint, which is insignificant, but hopefully of some use: you are headed down a path that is noble and meaningful, and you should not stray. The focus that you are seemingly implying as your interest is political economy (political economy in its traditional form, not to be confused with international political economy). This is the area that is most interested in explaining the philosophical and practical implications of economic theories, their relevance to the world we see, and their use and applications. Of course, this area is the oldest area of econmics, and was created and carried on by Smith, Ricardo, Marx, Keynes, etc., and the focus of many modern economists such as Galbraith, Heilbroner, etc. Nonetheless, if theory/thought is what you are interested in, you will have to have some understanding of the mathematics that has been applied to past economic theories--to understand the underlying intuition of the theorists who devised these theories. And as some have mentioned, calculus is often the crutch that many of these theories stand on (And as such, these theories are models of alternative realities based on a system of mathemic logic), and thus, for the purpose of understanding their philosophical underpinnings, you must know the syllogistic reasoning of their design. Even the universities that will be revealed to you through the websites I included require a thorough understanding of mathematics as prerequisites to their programs (At least the first year sequence of Calculus, a course or two on multivariable calculus, and some understanding of matrix algebra--However, if time is of the essence I would recommend the first year sequence as a must, in addition to a mathematical economics course or two, if your university offers one, since this will likely cover some important tools and applications of higher level mathematics to core quantitative economic problems). It would certainly be in your best interest to take these courses, but you do not need to be or become a math wizard. Lastly, I would recommend Colorado State University, U Mass-Amherst, New School University, Notre Dame, or University of Missouri KC. There are many great professors that will be more than willing to guide you, rather than persuade you to abandon your current interest. Do some research, and if you have any questions, feel free to let me know and post your comments. Good luck, and hello to all of those that I haven't said hello to in a while. I've been locked away in my studies. HetEcon

Call me crazy, but I think your undergrad CGPA is not so bad. Please provide some more info (eg GRE scores, classes, etc) and I think you will elicit some great advice from others.

Hey Scheng and all, it has been awhile since I've posted, but I have checked in every once and a while and everyone seems to be doing great. To Scheng: Ain't life interesting? The greatest part is that nothing is permanent. There is nothing I can say here that someone hasn't already said elsewhere, except that life is not a sprint! Grad school was merely (and will still be in the future) an option. Nobody knows where each road will take them, and it is very often the case that some of the roads will lead to the same place where they began. So, wherever this one takes you, I hope you take the time to enjoy yourself, learn, and grow. Good luck, and thanks for helping so many of the others here at TM find their own path (whether it leads to grad school or elsewhere). :)

In my opinion, if these schools are your top choice (ie your "dream school"), then it might be a reasonable investment. But, if these schools are not at the very top, and if your profile is decent enough to get into these top schools in the first place, it may be worthwhile to hold off, fortify your background in economics (possibly at the grad level somewhere else) and math (with an emphasis on the latter, since your success in mathematics is usually a good indication to these schools of your success in their program, which translates to a higher likelihood that your top choice school will fund you next year), and then take another crack at your top choice next year. Of course, this second option is all the more easier if you got into a school, with aid, that would allow you to opt out after your first year (say, a terminal masters degree). I'm sure if you leave your profile for Econ, Klimano, and Cliff, as well as the schools that you did get into, your top choices, and your intentions in grad school, they would be more than happy to offer you some advice. Congratulations on the admits, as they are great schools. Good luck on your decision.

I had to dig deep in the cookie jar to get this thread to the top. It is probably the most complete thread with the profiles of TMian applicants, their path to glory, and where they have applied. IMPORTANT Please, to all of those who are new to the forum (like I was a month or so ago), feel free to post your profile (iff you are comfortable). This establishes a great way to compare backgrounds, check-up with fellow applicants (if you have applied to the same universities), or have a foundation of information from which to ask questions (and PLEASE feel free to ask questions in the form of a NEW thread--you are sure to get some great, helpful advice). ALSO Pretty soon it would probably be a great idea to start an "official admit/reject thread," since the season is halfway over for most, and completely finished for others. If no one does, I will take the liberty of doing so soon. Best wishes and fingers crossed (for you, me, and everyone else)

Scheng75, I have come across your story in numerous places through TM and it is still fundamentally such a great story of how persistence and maturation are very much a part of the whole process. So, thank you for sharing. Hopefully everyone can learn something from Scheng's road to success--namely, that the road is going to bumpy and crooked, and sometimes the clearest paths are not evident until you take some wrong ones. Furthermore, there is never just one way to reach your goal!!! A great example for those in doubt. :)

I would suggest that you take the offer (or the best offer that comes your way) for the following reasons: First, by doing so it should not really put you in a worse off position than you are in now, despite the the ranking of the school (you can always outline some convincing justifications of why you attended the university in your statement of purpose letters); Secondly, if the program offers an MA/MS, it gives you an opportunity to strengthen your profile, since the level/quality of courses should not be too (or entirely) different than courses offered at higher ranked universities, and despite the disparities in academic rigor, they should still serve as indicators of succes, nonetheless; Thirdly, and this is of prime importance (and also where the ethical issue comes in), when the issue of asking for letters of recommendation arises, you can do 1 of 3 things: (one) Ask your letter writers if you can read the letters to ensure the highest of quality (this would be not only awkward, but it would certainly take some grit on your behalf--not the recommended route); (two) Ask your letter writers to write the recommendations if and only if they feel comfortable writing you a positive letter (your request of course would be much more formal), and hope that they do not stab you in the back for leaving the program prematurely (of course, if you had a convincing reason for leaving the program, this would minimize the chance of this occurence); (three) You can request more letters than are necessary (eg ask the letter writers to write letters to universities you have no intention on applying to), also request that you are required to send the letters directly, and then open one letter to personally ensure the letters do not misrepresent your academic quality (this of course is the most unethical of the three, and I do not endorse it personally, but extreme cases may require extreme measures--this is for you to decide). Of course, it is for you to decide. No one of us can make the decision, but only offer viable options for you to consider. Best of luck!!!

Univesal education.

I can only speak on behalf of the economics program there. First waive of admits and funding was already sent out. Admits w/o funding should be out this week. Best of luck for your program!!

Please forgive the simplistic nature of my response, especially in light of the rather sophisticated responses that precede mine. I can think of two reasons for this state of discontent that has come over you as of recently: (1) You have put so much effort and time into the whole process, exercised the virtue of patience to the fullest waiting for seemingly life-changing news, and now, as the big build-up has just ended (quite abruptly, relatively speaking), you are at a point of anticlimax. That is, the past months have been defined by struggle and anguish, and you have adapted (and possibly thrived) in this emotional state. The most rudimentary feelings of happiness and sadness must have hinged, at least to a large extent, on the decisions of the universities in question. Now that this way of living is absent from your life, you have not yet figured out how to adjust to life after the process. So, it was not where you got in that matters so much (as far as happiness goes), since a priori to the beginning of the process an admit to such a high university was unthinkable (as you alluded to). (2) In addition to (1), you have more than likely put each university through rigorous comparisons, over and over again (through every step of the process). Thus, you have highlighted pros and cons in each possible outcome, and have likely mentally prepared yourself (by justifying) for both the worst outcome and the very best outcome. For instance (a priori to receiveing any decision), in the event that you were rejected by X (a top university), but admitted by Y (a university lower than X, ranking wise), you have probably justified going to Y by emphasizing (in your mind) the pros of Y and the cons of X. You have probably partaken in this justification process for every outcome, and thus, taking into account that you probably felt you had the greatest chance of getting into a Y, as opposed to an X, you are now more prone to highlighting the cons of X, relatively. Given that you have been admitted to X, your disappointment is natural, but temporary. Furthermore, given that you made it to one of the least likely outcomes, you have reodered your thinking, following the same logic you have become accustomed to in these past months, and have subsequently created a newer ordering with even higher universities (possible outcomes), displacing your X (and possibly relegating your 13th ranked admit into the Y category). Please note, I am not saying that this process occurs in a formal matter (although for some, many of you have ordered universities in this fashion), but it is likely that you have at some level carried out such a mental transaction. I can just see you mathmagicians jumping on me for holes in my logic or something like that. Those are my best guesses, taking into account that the formal "ranking" of the universities are not the real issue. It is more of a battle with yourself, your way of life for the past few months, and the processes described above. I'm sure we can all relate. My suggestion would be to put aside everything that has to do with grad school (including this forum), and try to reestablish your normal patterns and daily life (outside of this whole process). Think of this: An airplane uses a great deal of its fuel in the takeoff, and once it reaches a certain altitude it uses very little fuel (the plane levels off, aclimates, and adjusts). Again, in preparation for landing, it uses a larger amount of its fuel and then, suddenly, it stops... :):):)

And where do you fit in? ;););)

Hey econgirl, I would either (1) Call the office personally (because they are notoriously slow to get back to questions online), or (2) email the office assistant, the undergraduate advisor, or one of the other assistants and have them redirect your email to the appropriate place. If it is important, you can't beat calling in person. Good luck!!!

DSE, New School is widely known for being one of the best heterodox economics programs in the country. Robert Heilbroner, the centerpiece of their faculty, is an institution in of himself, and one of my personal favorites as far as economists go. Their specialty is in heterodox economics (Political Economy, Institutionalism, Marxian Economics, etc.), however they try to balance out their approach by teaching a strong understanding of Neoclassical economics. The last I heard, the department is undergoing internal restructuring. I believe it is doing so for obvious reasons: that is, most universitites are becoming increasingly dominated by Neoclassical thought, and the program has therefore had some problems placing their graduates in such a limited field. Despite these limitations, I have heard that it is still somewhat difficult to get into the program. So, if your goal is to proceed into a program that specializes in this area of economic thought, this school may be worth applying to. If you are interested in alternative approaches to economics, the following schools are worth checking out: U Mass-Amherst, Colorado State University, University of Utah, UC Riverside, Bowling Green State, Michigan State University, American University, University of Denver, University of Missouri-Kansas City, University of Notre Dame (their faculty is ideologically divided, however), and there are a number of highly ranked non-US institutions if you are interested (just let me know). As far as location, New School is located right in the city, so living costs might be an issue. But as far as exposure to a cultural mecca, it might be worth it. If heterodox economics is not your interest, there many other great institutions that myself or a number of others on this forum could recommend. If and when you respond, just leave some info about your interests and your background, and one of your fellow TMians will surely come to your aid and drop some knowledge. Hope this info helps out a bit:)

Thanks PolicyEcon, your experience is very inspirational and it is sure to help many future applicants. Have fun in SF and if you go to the Fisherman's Wharf (I know it's touristy), make sure to eat at the Crab House. Despite the fact that the prices are a bit high, the seafood is well worth it (especially the crab!)! And for anyone else that might be traveling out that way, stay in South San Francisco by the airport. The prices are a lot cheaper and you are still only minutes away from San Francisco (SF State, UCSF), Oakland (UCB), and many other spots (driving distance to Stanford, UCSC, and more). Most importantly, to PolicyEcon, ENJOY YOUR SPRING BREAK!!!!:)

Tha's great news policy econ! I have two questions: First, do you have a MA in econ already, and where did you do your undergrad? I don't mean to be intrusive, but I think that your background would certainly be helpful to those who might be thinking of going that route as an option (myself included). I've heard great things about both UCB's and UCLA's MPP programs--so kudos to you!

Hey Tashkenty, I'm so sorry to hear about the reply (or lack thereof, really). I think you hit on a good point about the whole application system and one of its major faults. That is, the applicant spends so much time and energy, not to mention money, on the application, follows all of the formal steps and rules provided by the department and university, suffers anxiously until the point of exhaustion waiting for a reply, and the universities do not have the courtesy or decency (or ________ fill in the blank) to even update you when their decisions are made. I know that some of you will be tempted to defend the university, but I think we have all seen this scenario on TM in one form (forum) or another. For tonight, I will curse UC Berkeley with you!:mad: Keep your head up and don't dwell on it too long:)

Thanks Neokeynesian, Keynes himself was quite an outside-of-the-box thinker for his time. But to keep on subject and to add to your last post, here is another link to heterodox programs in the US and around the world (If anyone is interested). http://www.boisestate.edu/econ/lreynol/web/PDF_HET/GRADUATE%20PROGRAMS.pdf

"Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succeed is always to try just one more time." -Thomas Edison Thanks all, it was my intention to just provide an alternative perspective. I have dedicated this coming year to gaining a stronger background in economics (basically the quantitative and modeling stuff) as a prepatory step towards either political science or economic sociology. Which is why I have not applied to top (pure) economics programs, but either smaller programs (which offer the MA only), or schools with a more pluralist approach (eg Heterodox economics programs). I will post my this year's successes elsewhere, soon. My real test will be next year, when I have to apply once again. To Saadsheikh, See the quote above. If the love of your life was clinging on to you, hanging over an infinite abyss, you would certainly keep holding on. Yes, some would argue that these are not "real terms" that I am speaking in. But I would be willing to bet that most people here on this forum would argue that they are pursuing their love or passion. Grad school, in many ways, is an irrational choice. If it is what you love, 3 more tries should not sway you. To All, Please keep sharing your past and present failures, as well as your past and present successes. I am certain that this forum is nothing if not therapeutic.

Hey Snake, the who-got-in website shows that a few people have been admitted to the Philosophy program, but they submitted that they found out via telephone. I believe that at UCI it is not standard protocol for them to call the applicant, so I would assume that the applicant probably called UCI and found out for themselves. Assuming that UCI has made their decisions and are waiting on the Grad division, your next step is up to you (eg, do you call or do you just wait). Good luck, either way.

Please, no, not JS Mill. I'm just kidding, but the Utilitarian explanatory framework has too mighty of a hold on the discipline (economics that is). Are we really as simple as he has made us out to be?

Hey Cliff, You deserve a celebratory dance too, I have seen your admits and they are greeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaattt!!!! >>>>>[banana]>>>>>>>>>>>>>[goodjob] Make sure you, Econ, and Klimano dont leave the TM forum without leaving some pointers for us wee-people who will be applying next year. You guys have set the bar really high, and you should all be proud of yourselves! Congrats!!!