How well should Real Analysis be learned for econ phd preparation?

[chisquared]

I am slightly confused. Is T. Sargent also recommending to take graduate real and complex analysis and so on... as they were listed on his website, under the graduate Courant courses.

 

I was also under the impression that analysis on the real line would be all you need for economics. In fact, I've read that complex analysis is neither important nor very useful.

 

Ah, well. It's a good thing I don't mind studying math even if it's not directly applicable, or the application isn't immediately apparent.

[Gecko]

Go be a mathematician man ;)

[Guest _nanashi]

I am at a top 10ish department. , some people manage to pass with only a tertiary understanding of these topics Although, this tends to come with a lack of depth of understanding.

 

That caveat is exactly my point. I think its harder once you've had the math to realize what the material looks like to someone who has not. I had Analysis while taking my second semester of Micro (Game Theory, Assymetric Information). I'm preparing for the qualifiers now, and my experience with Varian is proofs are easier to follow. I don't have to read them as carefully to understand what their argument is. A person who hasn't had analysis isn't going to recognize it when its staring at him in the face, that still doesn't mean he won't understand the text. I don't think I was ever arguing that people don't benefit by taking more math.

[AppliedEcon]

I also wondered how much RA I needed to know, so I asked during my department visits. From the responses I received, not too much beyond having taken it and being comfortable with higher level math and proofs. You will re-learn a lot of material as it applies specifically to your field.

[Gecko]

Applied, I don't think you will be dealing much with epsilons during your future work after first year ^_^

[RonSwanson]

Beyond a signal, the direct uses of Analysis in first year Graduate courses is little to nonexistent. It simply though makes your life a bit easier to have seen it. I know people at top 5, top 20 and top 30 graduate programs who've never had it and have been successful. I really do genuinely think if you have a natural aptitude for math, calculus I-III and Matrix Algebra is enough to get through PhD program. The main thing is very few people have the kind of natural aptitude.

 

But how do you signal the higher aptitude without RA? From what I understand is that high GRE Q scores are necessary but not sufficient conditions, If you take a mostly abstract Linear Algebra Course does this indicate high aptitude?

[Guest 8675309]

But how do you signal the higher aptitude without RA? From what I understand is that high GRE Q scores are necessary but not sufficient conditions, If you take a mostly abstract Linear Algebra Course does this indicate high aptitude?

Good grades in other courses and strong letter of recommendations from economics faculty which the adcom find credible. I have seen plenty of people go to top graduate schools without taking real analysis or doing research assistantships. I have never seen a student go to a top 10 school without at least one well known letter writer.

[RonSwanson]

Also something I'm trying to understand is how do you define whether your letter writers are well known? Paper Output to number of times their papers have been cited? Ask them? What positions they've held?

[yiisheng]

Also something I'm trying to understand is how do you define whether your letter writers are well known? Paper Output to number of times their papers have been cited? Ask them? What positions they've held?

 

If they are top 5% economists by the IDEAS standard, I think it'll be safe to say they are well-known. Surely, it's not easy to make the list though...

[badasseconomist]

I just thought you guys should take this in to your consideration before making any analysis........

 

I know a girl who did her masters at a not-well known institution (not US, Europe or Canada), with professors that are not in the top 5% or even 10% of IDEAS economist rankings, she made it to Princeton(and she received offers from a bunch of other schools like NYU, Yale, etc.). One other thing to note is she had zero research experience.

[Guest 8675309]

I just thought you guys should take this in to your consideration before making any analysis........

 

I know a girl who did her masters at a not-well known institution (not US, Europe or Canada), with professors that are not in the top 5% or even 10% of IDEAS economist rankings, she made it to Princeton(and she received offers from a bunch of other schools like NYU, Yale, etc.). One other thing to note is she had zero research experience.

This forum has not synthesized this well. Your path to Ph.D is completely based on the country which you are from. The test-magic 'consensus' is advice most useful to Americans, and to a lesser extent Canadians. In this region of the world the typical person graduating with an undergraduate economics will probably have taken no more mathematics than high school calculus. Most of them probably not mastered what would be considered middle school mathematics in Asia or Eastern Europe (basic algebra, geometry and trigonometry). If I have hurt anyones patriotic spirit I'm sorry, my coworker teaches college algebra and has commented about how this is taught in the 8th grade in Russia. Economics courses here are often taught using graphs and figures. Basic algebra is the only thing used to teach intermediate micro at many places, with a derivative here or there at most. Of course if you went to a competitive undergraduate institution which most of the students scored in the top 10% of the SAT distribution what I said isn't as true. However, this is what reality looks like at vast majority of America. It is naturally this type of undergraduate system lends that an applicant to graduate school must supplement their coursework considerably.

 

 

For the ambitious International students aiming for top 20 schools it is more important to be from the right institution than to have well known letter writers. University systems outside of U.S./Europe are young; and the faculty pay differential in between North America and the rest of the world is so large that most of the good/well known faculty in most fields are in the U.S. and Canada. Europe has been okay because their schools have benefited from being established for centuries, but even they are behind American schools in terms of availability of research funds and salaries. The moral is there aren't that many well known letters outside of America.

 

 

If your trying to maximize your chance at Ph.D. and your not from North America, Europe or Australia, you need to go to a school which will be known by admission committee and have a history of sending students to top program. If you look at the C.V. of job market candidates you will probably see that the Chinese students at top 20 will probably come from Beijing, Fudan, Tsinghua, or some other prestigious Chinese University; They probably were among the top 5 students there. If they are coming from India then they likely will come Delhi School of Economics, or Indian Institute of Statistic; Koreans will come from either Seoul, Yonsei or Korea U; Bangladeshi will come from Dhaka; Japanese from Ritsumekan, Tokyo U, Keiio, Waseda or so forth.

 

Also people on this forum don't seem to get that foreign schools are much less flexible than American schools. Foreign education systems are often modeled off the UK or European system, courtesy of the influence of the British Empire prior to World War II. Students cannot take classes outside of their department. Students will have often taken 3 to 4 years of economics courses and many will have seen something like Advanced micro and used linear algebra in their classes. Often mathematics will be taught in major. Also it may be impossible to switch programs or majors. Options like taking Ph.D classes and doing a thesis is simply often not there for foreign students as departments may be large, and faculty may be scarce. Adcoms are well aware of this. Many adcoms came from such systems. As most of you enter programs, many of you are going to find that many of your foreign classmates don't fit the mold you expect from test magic. They are not supposed too. They have done other things too prove their worth to adcoms, and frankly test-magic is only subliminally aware of this.

 

This post is also intended to foreign students freaking out about not having done a math major instead of economics major, and not having famous letter writers. The answer is you may not need too.

Edited April 22, 2012 by 8675309