Does this count as relevant research experience?

[kevin1297]

No, I would recommend exactly what I said in my last post. Everyone else has reiterated the major points; but, in case it wasn't clear, I recommend you major in economics, minor in mathematics, and possibly take one additional course (maybe ODE) beyond the bare minimum for the math minor. A few more econ electives, as chateauheart points out, might also be good. You could take one intro-level computer science course if you want, but it isn't necessary and you shouldn't do it if it's going to overload you at any point. I do not recommend taking an economics major, a math minor and "as many math and CS courses as possible." As someone pointed out, you don't need a panoply of different courses on your transcript at this time, you need to do really well in the right ones. This is what we're trying to say.

 

 

 

No, do not do that. Please understand that everyone is not leading you astray when they tell you to disabuse yourself of this notion that the quantity of courses is more important than securing a strong performance in the right ones.

 

Ok thanks for the advice. I guess I was just confused not because the advice you gave was unclear, but because on a majority of the profiles I have seen, people have taken a wide range of math courses. I thought that I needed that in order to get into a PhD program, but I guess I was wrong.

[kevin1297]

I disagree about CS courses not being helpful. I kind of wish I had taken more than one. That said, they don't seem to matter for admissions and there is no reason to get a minor in it rather than just taking two or three classes.

 

However, I agree with everyone else that you are trying to do far too much. I can't understand why anyone would want to take 22 credits a semester, much less someone in your situation. You seem to be under the impression that admissions committees make decisions based more on how many classes you have taken than how you did in them, which isn't the case. Why can't you just take the normal amount of credits per semester and do an econ major/math minor?

 

I could do an econ major/math minor. That's probably what I'm going to end up doing. I'm really ambitious and like to challenge myself, so I thought an International Relations/Econ double major with a math minor was something feasible. I take every opportunity (including the original RA position that I mentioned in my original post) to further my long term goal of being a PhD economist without regard to how much free time I will have to have a social life, deal with mental health stuff, etc.. When I was studying for finals, I would stay in the library until 4 or 5 in the morning, sleep for 4 hours and do it again (this went on for three weeks). I push myself to near the breaking point because I know that's what I am capable of.

 

However, I have realized recently that this attitude isn't healthy and although being ambitious is good, I can still be ambitious and work hard without pushing myself so hard that I break.

 

I always feel that I have the potential to have a 4.0 GPA, and when I don't get it, I feel like I am below my potential and compensate by working even harder the next time. Unfortunately, this still doesn't get me the grades I want. Maybe I'm just never going to get into an Econ PhD program, and I just need to accept that and take the next best option. Not everyone is meant to be a PhD economist, and maybe it's just not the direction that my life is meant to take.

[chateauheart]

because on a majority of the profiles I have seen, people have taken a wide range of math courses. I thought that I needed that in order to get into a PhD program, but I guess I was wrong.

 

Is a wide range of math courses desirable? Absolutely yes. Is it a feasible plan for you to overload on advanced math when you struggled with Calc II? No.

 

Please remember what we've been saying for a while, that there is a substantial gap between what appears to be practical for you, and what we could recommend to a typical applicant. If you struggled with beginner's level math and econ classes despite working yourself into depression, we can under no conscience suggest that you overload yourself on advanced undergraduate math/econ, even though that's what would be expected for a typical student who want to get into a top 50 economics PhD. If you ask us advice for "what's the best I can do now", we'll tell you what that is, but that doesn't mean it'll take you any further to the goal of eventually getting a PhD at a respectable institution. It probably won't.

 

I'm glad that you are maintaining a more healthy and balanced perspective, but keep in mind that this means you'll probably end up spending less time on academic coursework compared to your more maniacal past, and at the same time you'll be taking much more difficult courses as a junior. This likely means more subpar grades in the future. This problem isn't something you can eliminate with ambition. Doctoral admissions is largely a signalling game where admissions sift through the noise to find someone who would #1. be able to complete two years of doctoral level coursework and #2. be a good researcher. Right now #1 is already a barrier for you: your intrinsic level of academic ability, b, appears to be at least a few standard deviations below b*, what would be required to complete doctoral level coursework at the same pace as everybody else and then pass the prelims. If every signal you draw is b+e where e is a normally distributed error, you might be able to draw a sufficiently high signal given enough tries, but the cumulative history of your signals will still converge to b

 

So yet again, I suggest you explore other career options as your priority, and on the way, figure out whether you can maintain a level of academic performance sufficient to obtain a PhD degree while not killing yourself in the process. If you get 3.9+ for the next two semesters while exploring other activities, then you have a justification to come back and seriously consider doing a PhD. At this moment, you seem to be committed to a pipe dream of a career that you're neither good at nor will enjoy, out of some self-created expectation that succeeding at academia is a uniquely admirable goal. It isn't.

Edited July 14, 2015 by chateauheart

[kevin1297]

Is a wide range of math courses desirable? Absolutely yes. Is it a feasible plan for you to overload on advanced math when you struggled with Calc II? No.

 

Please remember what we've been saying for a while, that there is a substantial gap between what appears to be practical for you, and what we could recommend to a typical applicant. If you struggled with beginner's level math and econ classes despite working yourself into depression, we can under no conscience suggest that you overload yourself on advanced undergraduate math/econ, even though that's what would be expected for a typical student who want to get into a top 50 economics PhD. If you ask us advice for "what's the best I can do now", we'll tell you what that is, but that doesn't mean it'll take you and further to the goal of eventually getting a PhD at a respectable institution. It probably won't.

 

I'm glad that you are maintaining a more healthy and balanced perspective, but keep in mind that this means you'll probably end up spending less time on academic coursework compared to your more maniacal past, and at the same time you'll be taking much more difficult courses as a junior. This likely means more subpar grades in the future. This problem isn't something you can eliminate with ambition. Doctoral admissions is largely a signalling game where admissions sift through the noise to find someone who would #1. be able to complete two years of doctoral level coursework and #2. be a good researcher. Right now #1 is already a barrier for you: your intrinsic level of academic ability, b, appears to be at least a few standard deviations below b*, what would be required to complete doctoral level coursework at the same pace as everybody else and then pass the prelims. If every signal you draw is b+e where e is a normally distributed error, you might be able to draw a sufficiently high signal given enough tries, but the cumulative history of your signals will still converge to b

 

So yet again, I suggest you explore other career options as your priority, and on the way, figure out whether you can maintain a level of academic performance sufficient to obtain a PhD degree while not killing yourself in the process. If you get 3.9+ for the next two semesters while exploring other activities, then you have a justification to come back and seriously consider doing a PhD. At this moment, you seem to be committed to a pipe dream of a career that you're neither good at nor will enjoy, out of some self-created expectation that succeeding at academia is a uniquely admirable goal. It isn't.

 

Things change. Who knows what my grades will be like in the future, and all I can do is try my best. It may be that a PhD just isn't right for me, and that's ok, but I can still try. Hopefully with a more healthy and balanced attitude things will look up from here. But, if I continue to struggle in math and get depressed, then it's not worth it, and that's ok. I can still have a meaningful life doing something that's not with a PhD.

[Catrina]

You don't need that wide a range of math courses outside of the top 20 anyway. Given that the math minor at your school includes real analysis, completing a math minor (with really good grades), should be sufficient in terms of math preparation for most schools ranked outside the top 20.

 

When I took grad micro at Maryland, the professor asked us on the first day to describe our math backgrounds, and while pretty much all of the econ PhD students had taken real analysis (the non-econ students often hadn't), most people hadn't taken much beyond one semester of undergraduate real analysis if I recall correctly. Also, if I recall correctly from my visit days at schools in the 30-50 range (my memory is more fuzzy about this), I met a fair number of students who had not taken real analysis at all.

 

While taking more math is beneficial for those who can manage it, it certainly isn't a necessary condition for getting admitted.