RonnieT1283

Has anyone else here got an extremely late letter by post from BU saying that you will be on the waitlist for fall 2007 and spring 2008? I applied to the PhD program there so I am wondering what this means?

I think you are going to find the degree hard to justify completing if you are doing it only for the designation. For your career goals it sounds like you could really use a masters in econ. Many people in this forum will denounce them as a waste of time, but they are effective in giving you the training, and an edge/prestige in the private sector to do more interesting work than someone with a BA. However, given you already have a firm offer, I dont know if waiting another year to even enter a program would be in your best interest. On another note, if there is a glass ceiling for people without a PhD, I have to second the comment already alluded to here that there is a "glass floor" for those that do have a PhD. Many of the people I work with or know in the private sector would never hire a PhD simply because they are over qualified for many positions and therefore would demand too high of a wage. This is what finalized my decision to stop at a masters in econ. I had to do a cost-benefit analysis on getting the PhD, comming to the conclusion that the benefit of being able to obtain a higher-echelon of jobs (professorships, high-end consulting jobs) exceeded the cost of the extra time to get the degree and the decrease in the universe of jobs I was qualified for (i.e. became overqualified for a huge universe of consultant/analyst jobs I found interesting).

I am actually making the opposite decision you are right now. I am currently in my first year at a low ranked phd program, have a funeded fellowship at a top 50 program, but instead took an offer as a stat consultant/analyst because I just can justify the five years, even though I am only turning 24 in september, and therefore am not in the same stage of life as you are. I had to go through the same soul searching you did and what it ultimately came down to was that given the ranking of my placement, the only reason to get the PhD was to go into academia because a phd from a school ranked 40-50 will not open many more doors in the private sector than a MA in econ + consulting experience. Therefore, while my initial goal was to become a professor, I had to ask myself, do I really want to be an academic my whole life? At first the answer was yes because I thought I loved doing economics research and thought that professors had a much better lifestyle than a 9-5 job. Then my coursework made me realize the research being done in the areas I was hoping specialize in is not that interesting. Then I looked at young academics with PhDs from better universities than I would have had at a 40-50 school and looked at how much pressure there was for them to publish and realized that even with the most interesting research topics, the pressure to produce research might feel like homework my entire life. Basically my first year at a low ranked program made me realize that the life of an academic is not what I wanted so I decided to stick it out at my current program, get a masters, and get a consulting/analyst job. While it may seem like a poor decision to give up a fully funded offer at a university ranked approximately 150 places higher than your current institution you ultimately have to ask yourself two questions regarding accepting this offer: 1 - Do you really want to be an academic? If you do, then getting a PhD almost anywhere is worth it since you cannot be one without it. (this question doesnt apply to you since you since you are working towards a non-academic position) 2 - If you do not want to be an academic, if your school ranked high enough to justify the five years? A PhD at a top 20 program might be worth it, top 10 definately. Outside of that, you might be better off with an MBA or combination of masters depending on what your non-academic goals are. Hopefully my experience and thought process I went through when making my decision will of use when you make yours.

I hope a lot of you guys are not doing it hoping you will have better hours because you wont, unless of course you do not consider doing research work. If you do consider it work, then you will definately be working more hours than someone working for "the man" if you want to have a chance at being a somewhat respected academic. That is why I am quitting at the masters. I realized that while I like doing economic research, I do not "love" it and the pressure to continuously publish is going to feel like having homework my entire life. Id much rather work for "the man" than have that.

I second this! I actually am in the process of getting my MA in econ and the company that is funding my tuition/stipend has offered me an analyst position that pays a total of 20k more a year when you factor in tuition than what we pay BA's that we hire. Further, my job responsibilities are completely different. I get to travel to meet with clients and work on projects that require the knowledge of statistics, econometrics and programming languages, while the BAs simply make mine and other analysts presentations and spreadsheets look nice (the grunt work). And I am getting my MA at one of the more applied programs (Delaware) so even an MA at a lower level is not necessarily worthless.

Yea it means financial aid (pretty generous too) and as far as accepting I am not sure yet.

I got a funded offer and I know a few more people from this forum got unfunded offers from them, but that was all back during the end of Jan. as you said.

Transferring is possible, but it means losing a year, unless you have taken non-core courses. I currently have the option of transferring from a school ranked approx 200th to a school ranked approx. 50th The way I was able to improve so much was by getting a 4.0 my final spring semester with two analysis courses, linear algebra, game theory and econ seminar, in which I wrote a paper that won a departmental essay contest and was chosen as a finalist for an international undergraduate essay competition. I did not even send in my fall grades at my current program and was still awarded a generously funded offer so it is very possible to "transfer".

The firm is only a few years old and their hires are the predominantly top MA students that come out of my current program so the attrition rate is zero. Okay, so Im starting to see that the general reason for most of you who have made the transfer from industry to academia is out of boredom with your current job. That too is one of the reasons I decided to pursue graduate studies. After a few internships within finance duing my undergrad, I found the jobs boring and non-challenging, assuming the only answer to finding what I enjoy lie in pursuing graduate studies in econ (a subject I knew I enjoyed). The problem I am facing is that I really enjoy empirical work in any form, but find that it is typically looked down upon in the academic community, while it is paid a premium in the private sector by those who can do it well. If there is any more out there that have or know of others who have voluntarily dropped out of programs id love to hear why and if it is for similar reasons I am considering?

Thanks for all of the feedback. I am definately going to at least get my masters at my current university. Because I have been taking the PhD core courses, I will also probably take the prelims, just in case I want to come back in a year or two and pick up where I left off. Has anyone out there made this decision the opposite direction (i.e. going from statistical consulting to pursuing a phd) and if so, for what reasons?

Any insight? I think this might be an important thread since it is a decision many students may have to make in the future.

While many of you are questioning which school to attend, I have a much different choice to make that I believe some of you may have to make in the future as well. I am currently enrollled at a very low ranked university (i.e. approx 200), but did well enough the spring semester of my undergrad along with other improvements to my profile to justify attempting to transfer to a better program. If anyone is curious, the link to my profile and schools I applied to is http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/63510-post-complete-profile-admissions-decisions-2.html. Although I have not updated it recently, Rutgers is still the only admit I have, but I have been rejected from Princeton and Maryland. My situation is somewhat unique in that I am not deciding between whether to stay at my current program or go to Rutgers and loose a year (I believe that choice is obvious given the strength of their program), but rather whether I should transfer to Rutgers or stay at my current university and get a masters. The reason I am even considering this is that my funding at my current university is through a local consulting firm. Upon entering grad school, my motivation for getting a PhD was the same as most of yours, because I enjoy independent research and believed the life of a professors to be far superior to that of a businessman's. However, my unique experience of working through first year courses while gaining real world experience (i.e. sas programing, data analytics, statistical modeling) has given me a view of what the other side is like and I have found that many of my skills are more suited for business world. Particularly, I find what I am doing at work (i.e. statistical consulting) much more interesting than current economic research. Further, as I get deeper into course work and have more of a realization of what research is like by successful economists, I have to say that I find it quite boring. Upon entering a PhD program, I was worried about the high attrition rate of econ PhDs. However, now that I am in the thick of it, I have realized why so many people leave programs voluntarily. Because they discover what I have discovered, that the pressure to produce research may make the glamerous life of a professor feel like having homework your entire life and that the business world might be more interesting that they once thought it to be. I have not made a definate decision either way but here is my question to an undoubtedly bias audience. Am I an stupid for even considering this decision? I am aware of how difficult the generously funded offer I recieved is to obtain, and that doing well there would definately lead me to my old goal of a tenured professorship at a decent university. However, while this is a great opportunity, I am questioning whether my goal of tenured professor is one I still wish to aim for. Any feedback from current grad students who have, or know of people who have had to make this decision or one similar please share your thoughts as I am stuck on the fence here.

Yea I got that email too last year when I called them. It is their nice way of rejecting you. Dont get me wrong, there is an incredibly small probability you could still be accepted, but in my case it ultimately ended in rejection.

No I did not. What is funny is that if you look at Dunny and I, He got into Rutgers with no funding and a waitlist from BC, while I got a generous fellowship from Rutgers and in all likelihood have been rejected again by BC since I heard nothing. I am not sure what to make of this but either: 1 - The admissions process is really as random as people say it is. 2 - Reapplying to a school, no matter how much you improve you profile, puts you at an automatic disadvantage. I still have to hear back from one more school I reapplied to (UMaryland) and 3 more I did not (Princeton, BU, WUSTL) so feel free to use my admissions decisions as a case study for future people who have aspirations of trying to reapply.

I applied to BC last year and re-applied this year so I know how they work. If you dont get an acceptance or wait-list email now, you are most likely rejected. Luckily they wont tell you until April 15th, in case you want to live with a false sense of hope.

I am currently getting my PhD at a program of similar ranking that is specifically known for its masters program so here is my two cents about your private sector opportunities. Getting your MA econ ALONE from any school other that the top in the country (NYU, BU etc.) will give you no distinct advantage for a better job in the private sector over a person with a BA econ from a good school. What will give you an advantage at the schools you have listed is if you can get SAS programming experience and learn as much applied statistics as you can. My program funds some of its students (me included) through internships with local companies who have students do a lot of SAS programing. It is these students who get the best placement and typically do things such as database marketing analysis and credit risk analysis making from $60-$65k. The students who do not have this experience make $45k on average. Therefore, given you have a foreign degree, accepting an offer from one of these schools is definately in your best interest. However, in order to maximize your options upon completion get as much SAS experience, stats, and if you want to go onto a PhD in econ or Finance pure math as possible. MA programs are typically flexible with electives so look to the stats and math departments to fill these electives.

Salaries for PhD are undoubtedly higher in the private sector. Espeically if you a PhD aquires some programming skills (i.e. SAS, VB, etc.) Here is a link to some job opportunities: http://www.analyticrecruiting.com/ and there is another one out there that has a lot more but I cant find it at the moment. On a side note, I am somewhat disturbed by the one-sided argument regarding the complete monetary irrationality of a PhD in Economics. Yes, it is possible to earn a great deal more money without a PhD, and there is the opportunity cost of the 4-5 years spent getting it minus the sum of tuition and stipend. However, besides my passion for economics, I believe getting a PhD is a wise professional choice. A PhD in economics is one of the few degrees that offers one the choice between academia, public and private sector. If someone with a PhD wants to earn $$, they can earn as much as any MBA in the private sector due to the high demand for the quantitative expertise they possess. Further, if one can obtain a job in academia, there are fewer jobs with as much job security and flexibility as a tenured professor.

Neither of my parents went to college and no one on either side of my extended family has even considered graduate school. I am sure some of you can imagine how hard it is to explain what I "do" at family functions.

Yea thanks asquare. Great questions!

This question is particularly meant for current graduate students out there. With admissions decisions starting to trickle in, I thought it would in everyones best interest to start a discussion about what are some important questions to ask current graduate students of the schools that people are considering. In particular, what are some questions you asked or wished you had asked graduate students are your current institution before you had accepted your offer? So far I have come up with the following: 1) How long does it typically take to complete a Ph.D. at Random University? 2) Do many people drop out of the program? If so for what reason (failed comps, job offers etc.)? 3) What are some of the better placements that graduates have received recently (academic, gov., private)? 4) Do you feel the department is above or below average in helping its graduates find placement? 5) If you were an RA, who would you recommend working with, not working with? 6) If you were a TA, what were your teaching responsibilities like? Do you feel the teaching load was too much? 7) What is your general opinion of how the department treats its PhD students on a scale of (worst: teaching work horse --to--best: up and comming academic who co-author's many papers)?

Sorry guys, I didnt mean to make anyone feel jealous. I just wanted to give everyone a heads up that apparently admissions season might be comming early.

I applied to Rutgers because based on their rankings at econphd.net and the interests of their current faculty they seem to be pretty good at macro, and in particular monetary, which is my area of interest.

Before people start thinking it is fake, I did get an email today from Rutgers offering 18k fellowship first year and 19k TAship the following three years. I never expected to hear something this early!

Econ Major / Math and Honors Minor from top private uni (Villanova) Overall GPA: 3.76 (magna) Econ GPA: 3.96ish (one A- in Intro to Econ stats) Math GPA: 3.71 (Calc III (A), Diff Eq and Intro Linear Algebra (B), Intro to Proofs (B)Game Theory (A) Linear Algebra (A) Numerical Analysis (A) Independent Study: Advanced Calculus (A)) Year Abroad at LSE that didnt count towards my GPA: Macro Principles (B- or 2.2) Intro to Econometrics (B- or 2.2) Social Policy: Econ Topics (B+ or 2.1) Econ History: Integration of Europe's Economy (B+ or 2.2) GRE's 1st time Q:720 V: 540 A:5.5 2nd time Q:770 V: 530 A:4.0 Research Experience: -IAES Undergrad Research Paper Finalist: Presented my senior thesis as one of four finalist at the IAES national conference -Was awarded an undergrad research grant from Villanova that paid for me to do independent research during the summer of 2005. LOR's and SOP: Both good, but had LOR's from all econ profs and no math profs Interests: I am a macro man. Particularly I am interested in monetary policy, monetary policy regimes, and development from an econ history perspective. Recently I have become interested in monetary policy and behavioral economics. Princeton: ? Boston University: ? University of Maryland: ? Rutgers: 18k first year fellowship + 19k TAship for remaining 3 years Boston College: ? WUSTL: ?

Yea that was Casella & Berger and I took it Pass/Fail through the stats department here. It went well, I learned a lot more than I would have in the econometrics I tested out of which used Djuarti (spelling?) and a little bit of Greene. We only got through the first half of the book in this course though.