nsulham

If you're having difficulty with SC then you should definitely consider the Manhattan GMAT Prep SC book. Like you, I was weak in SC initially. After reading through the MGMAT SC book a few times, I was hitting about 99% of SC questions. As an added bonus, if you buy the MGMAT SC book (new not used) then you will gain access to the 6 MGMAT online CATs for one year. Good luck :)

Hi ronyricky, I'll do my best to answer your questions; however, my answers might seem a bit ambiguous because the number of questions that you answer correctly is only one factor in determining your score. 1st question: "How many questions can one answer incorrectly and still score a 51 in Quant, assuming at least the first 5 are answered correctly?" The answer depends. I scored 51 in Q on two of my practice tests, once on MGMAT CAT and once on GMAT Prep. I answered 5 incorrectly on the MGMAT exam and 3 incorrectly on the GMAT Prep exam. I should also mention that I scored a 50 on MGMAT CAT a couple times and one time I only answered 5 in correctly. The scoring is tricky and I'm unsure of the specifics. I think that in order to score 51 you cannot answer more than 5 incorrectly and you cannot answer questions incorrectly in succession. 2nd question: "Can one score a 700 by answering 25 Q's correctly in Verbal?" Again, the answer depends. In order to score 700 you need to do relatively well on both the Quant and the Verbal sections of the test. The following link might be useful: http://www.www.urch.com/forums/gmat/11002-680-690-700-scores-how-does-gmat-calculate.html I would worry more about the raw scores that you are achieving on the Quant and Verbal sections of the test rather than the number of questions that you are answering correctly/incorrectly. The difficulty of the questions is more important than the number of correct questions.

Manhattan SC is not the same as the 1000 SC document. Manhattan SC is a prep guide for the GMAT. The book teaches concepts. If you buy the MGMAT SC book, you will gain access to the MGMAT Online CATS for 1 year. I would recommend that you buy the book new from Amazon.com and have it shipped overnight if you need it ASAP. Don't bother buying a used version of the book if you want CAT access because it is likely that the pevious owner already activated the tests; therefore, you would not be able to access them. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. :)

Hi Josh, First, your attitute isn't going to help you regardless of the path you choose for your future. You have to persevere -- don't give up because money is tight. Pressing on during a time of financial hardship will make you a stronger person as well as a stronger applicant. Schools will be impressed by your story. If you are truly interested in becoming a physician then you should absolutely not give up due to finances. There are plenty of ways for a person in your situation to earn a subsidized medical education (assuming you are capable and motivated.) Nearly all schools offer tuition reimbursement programs for graduates who practice in an underserved area for a short time after graduation. Additionally, the government has programs in place. Do some research and you will find that there are ways. Regarding GMAT/GRE: You will need to take these standardized tests and have scores sent to schools. Not every school requires both the GMAT and GRE for PhD in Economics programs (though many do.) GMAT/GRE waivers are available. Again, do some research and you'll discover how. The same goes for application fees; you can get the fee waived. Regarding test-prep materials: There are some free prep materials floating around. You can find some useful stuff on this forum. There are certain items that you're going to want to get that aren't available for free though. You should definately invest in the Official Guide for GMAT Prep-- I doubt that you will find it for free. Consider your life and what you want to accomplish. Regardless of the path you choose, you need to be motivated and have clear goals. Good luck :)

Consider Manhattan GMAT Prep if the courses are offered in your area. MGMAT emphasizes teaching concepts rather than tricks which will be very useful for a person that is several years out of undergrad. I'm not sure what the price is in comparison to Kaplan/Princeton, but I think you'll get a lot more out of MGMAT. You might want to consider studying on your own for a month or so prior to making a decision regarding classes. Initially, prepping for the GMAT can seem overwhelming; however, the concepts that are tested on the GMAT are relatively elementary. After a month of self-study you might realize that you don't need a class. Additionally, read through this forum and see what other people did in order to prep. After a short time you'll discover what works best for you. Good luck :)

Congrats!! Very nice score and well balanced. Good luck with your apps :)

Hi aham, The MGMAT CATs are indeed more difficult that the actual GMAT. They are especially difficult in the quant section in comparison to the real thing. The verbal content is decent on the MGMAT tests; however, your verbal score will quickly drop if you incorrectly answer RC ?s or incorrectly answer 3 or more ?s in a row on the tests (based on my experience.) Do not get discouraged with your performance of 660 if you are aiming for 700+ (which I assume you are.) My lowest MGMAT CAT score was 50 points lower than my official score. You still have 20 days so there is no reason to panic right now; panicking will only distract you and is likely to set you back. At this point, your best course of action might be to remedy your verbal deficiencies as best as possible. Analyze your practice test performance, review the questions that you got incorrect (as well as those that you got correct) and identify the type of questions that are giving you the most difficulty. If you are having trouble with SC, I would definately recommend the MGMAT SC book. If you are having trouble with CR, I would recommend the Kaplan 800 book (most recent version.) If you are having trouble with RC, practice (sorry I don't know a better way to approach.) Also, use this forum, it's an extremely valuable tool. I hope I've been helpful in some way. Best of luck :)

Congrats! Good luck with the next step :)

Way to go.... Congrats!! All the best with the next phase :)

Congrats! Great Score and Great Story. All the best with the next phase :)

Nicely done... Congrats!! Good luck with your apps

Very nice score, Congrats!! Good luck with the apps. Where are you considering applying to?

Thanks for the reply and the honest recommendation; I appreciate your input.

Answers: 1) Font? - download the GMATPrep software from www.mba.com. The GMATPrep tests look exactly the same as the real thing 2) Scratch paper/erabable board? - You get an erasable 5 page tablet of laminated grid paper (which you return after you complete the test) 3) Extra time added to rest? - NO. You do not get extra time if you finish the quan section early. I recommend that you take a look at the www.mba.com website and familiarize yourself with the test information that is provided.

Hi All, I am wondering if someone with knowledge can advise me regarding my timeframe for applying to B-School (GMATBong, you certainly seem to know your stuff, so a response from you would be greatly appreciated)... Ideally, I would like to apply for the 2008 entering class... My main concern is that I am only 24 and have limited full-time work experience (2 years.) The company that I work for is a large international clinical research company. My current title is "Research Associate;" however, I regularly perform duties above and beyond the job description of a research associate. I have been promoted within the company and continue to make progress up the organizational ladder. In addition to my typical research responsibilities, I have also been involved with new-hire orientation, given company-wide presentations and lead my research team through a successful client audit. I know that I have at least two (likely more) managers/supervisors who I can count on to write me SOLID recommendations. My target schools: *Columbia (my top choice - I am considering applying Early Decision) *MIT *Dartmouth *Cornell Some additional "credentials" *GMAT: 770 (Q:49, V:48, AWA:5.5) *GPA: 3.3 @ a top-tier private engineering school in MA (majored in Biomedical Enigneering) Sports/Organizations/Clubs: *Varsity Football (I played 2 years, but suffered 2 severe knee injuries that ended my playing career. I stayed involved by volunteering as an assistant strength/conditioning coach) *Fraternity (served as Social Chair, Steward and Interim VP and was a member of the social and pledge committees) *Biomedical Engineering Society *Pre-Health Society *Scuba Club Volunteer Activities: **This is a long list, but there is certainly some substance to the activities that I have been involved with Part-time/Summer Work: *Design Engineer (Co-op project with a small medical device company during my senior year of college. I received class credit rather than money, but it was definately worth the time and effort) *Function Waiter at a wedding hall (I worked as a waiter for 6 years, two during high school and four years while I was an undergrad) *Software Design Engineer (summer internship) *Private tutor (I tutored a high school student in math to prepare her for finals. This should be considered volunteer work, but her mother insisted on paying me) I firmly believe that I am mature enough for business school now and I would really like to complete school while I am still in a great position to do so. I have legitimate professional reasons for wanting to persue an MBA and I would really like to earn my degree before settling down and starting a family. I do have doubts regarding my experience though. So my question is: do you think I would be a strong applicant at my target schools or would I be better off waiting a couple years before applying? Any responses would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance :)

Nice Score.... Congrats!! Good luck with the Apps :)

I believe the MGMAT CATs are slightly more difficult than both the GMAT Prep tests and the actual GMAT. I think it's necessary for me to elaborate on that point... The MGMAT CATs are more difficult in quant because the questions require more calculation (especially for DS questions) and as a result the exam is more difficult to complete in the allotted time. I think this is great though because it forces you to get faster which will be very helpful for the real test. The MGMAT CATs are more difficult in verbal because there are some awkwardly worded questions in the CR and RC questions. The RC questions are especially difficult if you are scoring well. The SC questions are great and are very similar to questions from the OG, GMAT Prep CATS and the real GMAT. My scores on the MGMAT CATs were very close to my actual score and my GMAT Prep scores despite a substantial number of incorrect answers (average 10-12 in quant and 5-8 in verbal vs 6-7 in quant and 5 in verbal for GMAT Prep.) I hope this information is useful. Best of luck with the retake :)

I'm not sure what the thread is... sorry. If you are wondering how it is done: simply take the GMAT CAT #1 and CAT #2, then uninstall the entire GMAT Prep software and re-install it. This will allow you to retake both tests. You should see a good majority of new questions the first time you uninstall and re-install; however, you will surely see a large number of repeats in subsequent uninstall/re-installs and your test results will be skewed. This is not an accurate way to predict actual GMAT performance, but it is a very good way to practice and simulate actual test conditions. BTW, the GMAT Prep software can be downloaded an www.mba.com (I'm sure you already know this.) Hope this helps.

You're right on saying that MGMAT questions are not exactly like the ones from the OG. No third party questions are able to perfectly replicate actual GMAT questions; however, I do feel that MGMAT is the next best thing. The SC questions are great. The RC and CR questions are a little more difficult due to some confusing wording, but they're good practice nonetheless. I've also heard that Princeton verbal is pretty good, but I did not use it so I cannot speak from experience. Hope this help. Best of luck :)

Congrats--Great score!! Good luck with the next step :)

I'm not sure about the OG Quant supplement because I didn't use it; however, if I had to guess, I would say that it's comparable to the OG Verbal supplement which is very good. The supplements are just banks of additional "Offical questions." If you are simply looking for more problems the supplement should be a good addition to your prep. To answer your second question: I certainly came across a couple of the SAME TYPE of questions that appear in the OG on the actual GMAT. There is a limited number of concepts that the exam covers, so you're very likely to see some of the same type of questions. That being said, you cannot necessarilly take the exact same approach for every question of the same type. If you understand the underlying concept you should be in good shape though. Work your way through the OG and try some of the problems that appear on this forum. Good luck.

Hi TBAY, Sorry for not replying sooner. I've been consumed with last minute prep for my GMAT. I know it's been a couple days since your last post, but if you're still wondering why I calculated slopes then consider what I'm about to say... All GMAT math problems are designed to be solved in 2 minutes or less (as long as you know how to approach them.) That being said, when you get a problem solving question that gives you the value of three different points you should consider that the points are likely going to be those of a triangle. Since you know that you are trying to solve a problem involving a triangle, solve for the lengths of the sides and the slopes of the lines. Reasons being: if we find that two sides are equal length then we know that we have an obtuse triangle that can be split into two right triangles; if we find that the slopes of two sides of the triangle are perpendicular (equal to -1 when multiplied) then we know that we are dealing with a right triangle. Right triangles are very simple to work with and problems involving right triangles are simple as a result. Hope this helps... let me know if you're still confused

Hi All, Thanks for the congratulations and words of encouragement. Take a look below to find my debrief. My Debrief - (sorry for the delay… I’ve been relaxing and trying to unwind for the past 36 hours. Also, please excuse any errors in grammar and/or spelling-- I've turned my brain off and I'm going to let it rest until after the weekend.) Please remember when reading this debrief that that everything contained in this post is only a recommendation based on my experience. Use my experience and recommendation(s) to develop a unique study plan and subsequent success story. I'm going to try to keep this debrief as short, sweet and to-the-point as I can (unlikely.) That being said, if you have any questions please feel free to ask; either reply to this post or feel free to send me a PM. I mentioned in my initial post that I owe a lot to this forum and I would feel guilty if I did not give back what I can. Some quick background - I’m a 23 year old Massachusetts native. I completed my undergrad education just over 2 years ago at Worcester Polytechnic Institute with a degree in Biomedical Engineering. Since graduation I have been working at a bio/pharma clinical research company as an associate project manager (I began as a research assistant, but was promoted within a few months.) I’ll start with my Prep - One statement that I can make with conviction is as follows: there are NO SHORTCUTS when it comes to GMAT prep if you are aiming for your best score. I truly believe my score is the direct result of the time and effort that I put into my preparation. That being said, it’s very important to determine the level you’re beginning at prior to starting your prep… This would be a good time to go out and get the OG 11th Edition (you’re going to need it.) The diagnostic test in the OG will give you a good idea of what your stong and weak points are. I was caught a bit off guard by by the results of my diagnostic test. With the exception of problem solving and RC there was sufficient room for improvement in all areas. On to prep materials - Just as others have done, I will say that the OG and GMAT Prep software are the best study aids you can use. Those are certainly not all that I used however.... OG 11th Ed: The best. You will need to use this book as a study aid if you want to be successful. There is an extensive collection of actual GMAT questions that are ordered in difficulty from easiest to hardest. **How I used it: Simply put, I completed every question in the book and reviewed every answer. This comprised about 75% of my prep. In order to come up with a nice mix of questions I did a few from the beginning, middle and end of each section whenever I sat down (for example, questions 1-20, 121-130, 201-210 in the problem solving section.) Be sure to review all answers and explanations including the ones you got correct. The reason for reviewing incorrect questions is obvious-- you will see what you did incorrectly. The reason for reviewing correct questions is not so obvious-- you might see what you did correctly and you might also come across an explanation that shows you a simpler way to approach the problem. Simply solving questions correctly is not enough; you need to be able to solve questions correctly by using the most efficient method. GMAT Prep Software: This software contains two practice tests that will be a terrific indicator of your actual GMAT test day performance (within a reasonable margin of error.) **How I used it: I took the first test after doing about 1/3 of the quant in the OG and 1/4 of the SC and CR in the OG. Make sure you take the test seriously and do not cheat (for example, pausing the test while you read a passage in RC, taking multiple breaks, etc.) After the first test I went back to my prep and saved the second test until the day before the real thing. I do not believe in the idea of re-installing the GMAT prep software in order to take the test multiple times. Re-installing the software and re-taking the tests is not beneficial because you will see repeating questions. The GMAT prep software is not to be used as a study guide, rather it is to be used as an indicator of your GMAT performance. Skewed results will only give you a false sense of confidence that could come back to bite you on test day. Manhattan GMAT Sentence Correction: This is a terrific study aid for sentence correction. MGMAT does not teach you "tricks" or "test taking strategies," instead MGMAT teaches concepts that are critical to understanding the material that is tested during the GMAT. If you buy the SC book you will also get access to 6 online CATs that are, in my opinion, the next best thing to the GMAT prep practice tests. **How I used it: I read through the entire book twice. The book is a quick read and is relatively simple to understand. At the end of each chapter there is a short practice session as well as a list of questions from the OG that test the topic covered by the chapter that you just read through (for example, pronouns, parallelism, verb-tense, subject-verb agreement, etc.) I completed the short practice sessions at the end of each chapter, however, I did not go right to the OG and complete the questions listed at the end of each chapter. Instead, I read through the entire book prior to moving on to the OG and then did the OG practice questions in the order they are presented in the book. I found that it was much more useful to approach every problem equally rather than approaching a particular problem set with a prior knowledge of the error that I should be looking for. This strategy worked great for me, but isn't necessarily the best approach. Try both methods and see what works for you. MGMAT Online CATs: These are the next best thing to the GMAT Prep practice tests. It is important to approach these tests with an understanding that the questions are MORE DIFFICULT THAN THE ACTUAL GMAT, especially in the quant section. The difficult questions are great in the sense that they will prepare for the most difficult questions the GMAT will present you with. MGMAT also has great answer explanations for you to review. The scoring with these tests will be in line with your GMAT potential despite the fact that you will likely get more questions incorrect than you would like. I scored a 51 in verbal twice despite getting 5 questions incorrect both times. **How I used it: I spread these tests out over the 3 months that I prepared for the test. I completed one every 2 weeks. I really like the answer explanations that MGMAT provides. These are great practice. OG Verbal Book: This is a supplement to the OG and is structured in a similar to the OG 11th Ed. There are a couple repeated questions, but it is still a useful book if you complete the OG and you want additional verbal practice. **How I used it: I used this book the same as the OG 11th Ed. I completed the OG a couple weeks before my test and I wanted some additional verbal practice so I picked this book up. It's useful if you are looking for more official GMAT questions. Kaplan Premier Edition 2007: This book has about 15 useful pages in it. At the end of the book there is an index of mathematical concepts that are tested by the GMAT. I reviewed those concepts then used this book as a paperweight. I dislike Kaplan's approach to the GMAT. The GMAT is not a test that you can outsmart by using tricks and test strategies. Taking such an approach will hurt your chances. **How I used it: I reviewed the math concepts and that is all. Kaplan 800: This book is much more useful than the other Kaplan book. I believe it is especially useful for the verbal section of the GMAT. The verbal sections have a breakdown of commonly tested GMAT concepts that are useful to know. There are also some relatively difficult verbal questions with decent explainations. The quant in this book was not very useful for me. The questions are not representative of the hard bin of the GMAT quant section. **How I used it: I read the verbal sections and did the practice problems for SC, CR and RC. I think this book is especially useful for CR. This book cemented CR for me. Princeton Review: I cannot say much about this book because I hardly used it. I have seen mixed reviews from other posters **How I used it: I did the quant practice questions, but I don't remember how they were. Overall, I think this book is pretty similar to Kaplan in the sense that it teaches "tricks." Test Magic Forum: Obviously you know the value of this forum if you are reading my debrief. This forum is loaded with extremely intelligent people and there is a plethora of information available if you just browse. Read the debriefs, practice quant and verbal questions, post if you can and take solace knowing that there are others who are going through the exact same thing you are. (Note the different approaches people take to problems, especially in math-- there is a lot to be learned.) **How I used it: Read above. I spent most of my time reading posts and practicing quant problems. I learned new ways to approach difficult problems and learned more than I did from any prep book. I made a few posts in the quant sections; however, I have to admit that I was a bit intimidated by some of the math wizards on here. Prep breakdown: Quant: OG 11th Ed (complete the entire book), Test Magic Forum (learn great approaches to difficult problems) Verbal: PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE... the best way to fully understand verbal is to practice. Unfortunately, you will not learn these concepts overnight, but with sufficient practice, it is possible to become a verbal guru. OG 11th Ed (Again, complete the entire book and review the answers in the back) MGMAT Sentence Correction (Best way to get a grip on SC) OG Verbal (Supplement to the OG) Kaplan 800 (Especially valuable for CR and RC) Test Magic Forum (Useful if you have questions or if you are looking for great explanations to the problems) Practice Test Performance: GMAT Prep #1: 750 MGMAT 1: 750 MGMAT 2: 720 MGMAT 3: 720 MGMAT 4: 730 MGMAT 5: 750 MGMAT 6: 770 GMAT Prep #2: 770 Notice that my last 2 tests were right in line with my final performance... Next, I will explain my approach to test scheduling: I think I am unique in the sense that I work extremely well under pressure. In order to capitalize on this fact, I scheduled my test prior to beginning my test prep. I picked a day that was about 3 months away and made an appointment. I knew that I would be more focused if I had a deadline approaching and it my approach worked. You must consider your own situation when it comes to scheduling. Remember that the registration fee is $250 so make sure that you will be ready for the test when test day comes along. Finally, my GMAT experience: Amazingly I had a very good experience on test day. I think it was a combination of both getting a great night of sleep the night prior (nyquil :) ) and staying relaxed in the stressful hours prior to the start of the test. For me, the key to performing well on test day was staying calm. This is easier said than done of course. I just went in with the idea that I can always take the test again if I perform poorly. This is probably not the best approach, but it worked for me... AWA: These went well. As long as you have a good template for the Analysis of an Argument essay you should not have trouble with this section. I did not write a template for the Issue essay because I found that I was much better at thinking on the fly and writing this one. Definitely do a couple practice essays prior to test day. I made sure that I completed the AWA section when I took my final MGMAT CAT and GMAT Prep #2. I took the first break to have a bite to eat and a drink (I brought a powerbar and a vitamin water.) I also forced myself to use the restroom despite not having to go. Quant: Started off with a tricky geometry problem, which I believe I got correct, and a simple number property problem solving question. I got my first DS at question 3. The first DS was followed by 3 more, so by question 7 I had completed 2 PS and 4 DS. I got an even mix of PS and DS questions throughout after the initial barrage of DS. The problem solving questions were all relatively simple, but the DS became incredibly difficult. I think I got a couple DS incorrect one after the other and that hurt my score. Additionally, I was amazed when I came across 2 parabola DS questions. Both were simple, but they were unexpected. I did not see any probability questions, but I was prepared for them (Test Magic helped with my probability prep.) I used the second break in a similar fashion as the first. I finished my powerbar, had another couple sips of vitamin water and forced myself to use the restroom again. Verbal: Started with a couple SC and simple CR questions. I encountered my first RC at question 8 and came across two others prior to question 25. I had an even mix of SC, RC and CR questions. The SC was simple, the RC was moderate and the CR was very difficult. The overall difficulty of problems was no greater than the difficulty of problems in the OG. SC: These start simple, but if you are scoring high, the sentences get more involved and the underlined portions get longer (I came across one 4 line sentence that was completely underlined.) RC: All my RC passages were about the same length (~40 lines.) Two were science passages which tend to be more difficult. I have a science background though, so I welcomed this type of passage. CR: Started simple enough, but became much more difficult as the exam progressed. One thing to keep in mind with CR questions is that there is always only one correct answer. If you truly understand the meaning of the passage then only one answer will make sense in the context of the question. Practice is the only way to increase your understanding of the passages (Kaplan 800 will be helpful.) My final words: Remember that your performance on test day will be determined by the amount of effort that you put into your prep. If you notice that your performance is not improving during your prep, take a step back, re-evaluate what you are doing and consider changing your approach. There are several high scorers on this forum and each has written a debrief explaining his/her approach. Take what you can from each post and develop your own approach. I wish you all the best and I welcome any questions that you might have. Thanks again to everyone who participates in this forum. This is undoubtedly the best place to come when preparing for the GMAT. :)

I took my GMAT yesterday (03-Jul-07) and scored a 770 (Q:49 V:48.) Needless to say, I'm thrilled though exhusted. I owe a lot to this forum. Debrief to come... (I'm just too tired right now; sorry) Thanks all!! :tup:

Let's label the points so theyre easier to reference... (1,2) = A (2,5) = B (5,4) = C Now let's calculate the slopes for AB and BC... Slope AB = (3/1) Slope BC = (-1/3) At this point, if you're observant, you will realize that AB and BC are perpendicular (Slope AB*Slope BC=3*(-1/3)=-1) Based on this information we can conclude that a triangle with A, B and C as its vertices will be a right triangle inscribed in a circle; therefore, the hypotenuse of the right triangle will be equal to the diameter of the circle. Just calculate the hypotenuse of the triangle (line AC).... Answer is sqrt(20)