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If you are very close with the engineering professor and you know the letter would be glowing, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that letter, especially if the letter writer you replace him/her with wouldn't write one nearly as strong. I applied with an engineering LOR several cycles ago and had some decent admits, although funding was hard to come by. A letter from an economics PhD is ideal, and any LOR writer outside of the field is a negative, but so is a lukewarm/generic letter. Anyway, my profile is below if you're interested, just to provide one data point of an applicant with an engineering LOR: http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/111901-profiles-results-2009-a-4.html#post755399

Just seconding what econobot said, don't underestimate how important peer effects are

NBER: http://nber.org/jobs/employment_opp.html Research Assistant Positions not at the NBER

It seems obvious to me if you want to do development you should go to Berkeley ARE. Their development group (spread across ECON, ARE, and Haas) is arguably top 3, and perhaps second only to MIT. Your main adviser may have to be in the ARE department, but I believe there is no such restriction for the rest of your committee...but this seems like a question that you could ask and get a straightforward response to. You also may not have to worry about comps, since I know Berkeley Econ doesn't have any, so maybe the ARE department doesn't either. Also, I was told by a recent former student in Econ and another in ARE that the majority of the faculty in those 3 departments could care less if you are in their department or in one of the other two. As long as you are good, they will work with you. It's just that the reason why they are more likely to work with students within their own departments is more a matter of selection by the students into what department they apply to (since you can only apply to one) then anything else. If I were you, I'd look through their grad students (Graduate Student Directory - Department of Agricultural and Resource Economics) specifically at the job market candidates and you can see that several of them have faculty from Haas and/or econ on their committee. Two that come to mind that I know have worked with & co-authored with ARE students are Edward Miguel in Econ and David Levine in Haas. Plus, as far as lifestyle goes, the SF bay area >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ithica, despite what you say about geography not mattering. But, you should take all of this with a grain of salt as I am just an anonymous person on the internet. Visit both, ask these questions to your letter writers and the faculty you visit with at each institution, and see where you feel more comfortable.

Have you seen Chris Blattman's post on the subject? Which is for you: MPA, MPA/ID, or PhD? – Chris Blattman

PROFILE: Type of Undergrad: B.S. Mechanical Engineering at large state school (top 15 engineering, top 50 econ/math) Undergrad GPA: 3.30/4.0 (3.46 Math, 4.0 Econ) Type of Grad: MA econ at small private tier 1 with no PhD program that has sent students to Berkeley ARE, UC Davis Econ & ARE, UCSD, BU, Wisconsin AAE, and Cornell in the recent past. Grad GPA: 3.91/4.0 GRE: 800Q, 550V, 4.0AW Math Courses (undergrad only): Calc I-III(A, B, A), Diff Eq (B), Linear Algebra (A), Math Stats (A), Fund Discrete Math © Econ Courses (undergrad): Principles of Macro (AP credit), Principles of Micro, Intermediate Micro & Macro, Econometrics (A’s) Econ Courses (MA): Micro Theory, Math Econ, Development Micro (A’s), Experimental, Field Research Methods (A+’s), Econometrics, Development (A-‘s) Applied Econometrics, Nat’l Resource & Envir. Econ (IP), Macro Theory, Adv Applied Econometrics, Grad Seminar (Spring ‘11) Other Courses: Undergrad engineering with poor grades (~3.0 GPA) Letters of Recommendation: 1 from grad program co-head, thesis advisor, and prof I RA for. Other two are from an associate and assistant prof that don’t know me nearly as well. The most cited papers of each have 145, 61, and 11 citations respectively, so none are particularly well-known. Research Experience: MA Thesis, in my 2nd semester as an RA, co-author on a paper that should have first "working paper" draft completed soon Teaching Experience: TA for principles of micro (1 sem), grader for math department (3 sems) Research Interests: Development, applied micro, behavioral Statement of purpose: Will discuss my research and interests, tailoring a few sentences to each school. Try to briefly explain the C in discrete math Concerns: C in discrete math, not having a grade for MA-level Macro theory yet, low undergrad GPA, no real analysis Other: If I get one funded admit, I’ll be happy. Applying to: Berkeley, Yale, Columbia, NYU, Brown, Maryland, BU, Johns Hopkins, UW Also Considering: MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Northwestern, Chicago, Michigan, Minnesota, UCSD, Wisconsin, Caltech, Duke, WUSTL, BC, Georgetown I applied a couple years ago to PhD programs but ended up deciding to do an MA. I was admitted to 2 top 35ish and 1 top 50ish (all without funding) but was rejected by 6 in the 20-50 range. I’m now trying to decide if I should wait one more year or apply now. I feel if I wait my profile could improve in the following ways: 1. I will get to know my other 2 letter writers better as I will be taking courses from them next semester 2. My grad GPA could be as high as 3.95 3. I currently have one of the higher GPA’s in my MA program, so I could win the top student award or be designated as graduating with honors 4. I will have completed my thesis, the working paper I’m a co-author on may be close to being published and I may have the chance to present one or both at a conference 5. If I don’t apply this year, my plan is to work doing academic research under an economics PhD, either in the private sector or in academia. So I could gain more research experience and get an LOR from someone that is more well-known than my current LOR’s Should I wait a year? What are my chances now at the above schools? If I do wait, how much would the above improvements increase my chances at the schools I listed above? Thank you in advance!

A lower ranked school than others mentioned, but here are some stats for UC Davis: "How many applicants are admitted to the graduate program each year? As an example, for Fall 2009, there were 271 applicants, 96 were admitted and of those admitted, 25 enrolled at UC Davis, of which 15 are international students. Fall 2008, there were 196 applicants, 93 were admitted and of those admitted, 23 plan to enroll at UC Davis, of which 15 are international students. Fall 2007, there were 207 applicants, 113 were admitted and of those admitted, 26 enrolled at UC Davis, of which 13 were international students." Source: Department of Economics

Have you taken Calculus III? I believe the bare minimum requirements for most PhD programs are Cal I-III, Linear Algebra, and a semester of calc based Statistics so try to have those classes by the end of the fall 2010 semester. Some recent placements off the top of my head from USF's MA Econ and IDEC program include Berkeley ARE, UCSD, Cornell, BU, Georgetown, UW, Davis Econ/ARE, UCSC, and Wisconsin AAE.

Since you're interested in international and development economics look into the master's program at U of San Francisco (International and Development Economics Graduate Program) although looking at your profile it may not be the best way to fill the gaps in your profile. I just finished my first year in the program so if you have any questions about it feel free to PM me.

If you're interested in development and want to stay in the US one program to look into is U of San Francisco's master's in international and development economics (International and Development Economics Graduate Program). It's a 2 year program and what makes it different from other US master's programs is that everyone spends the summer in between the 2 years in a developing country doing research for their thesis. This year, groups of students are going to Bolivia, Cambodia, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, and Tajikistan. In previous years they have gone to Thailand, Vietnam, Guatemala, Uganda, Malawi, Kazakhstan, and others I can't remember off the top of my head. I just finished my first year in the program so if you have any questions feel free to PM me!

Since you're interested in international macro and it seems you have a desire to be in California UCSC would be another place to consider

What about Duke, WUSTL, and Vanderbilt?

I finally got my rejection from Queen's yesterday. The e-mail also said the following: "This year the number of strong applications from well-qualified applicants substantially exceeded the number of places for which we have funding, so that competition for admission was extremely competitive. Our admissions committee originally decided to defer a final decision on your application to see if a place would become available. However, our graduate programs are now full for the 2009-2010 academic year, and so we are unable to offer you admission." I guess I was "unofficially" wait-listed, then finally rejected. And unless they are lying to me, it sounds like they are done handing out admissions.

I am but I'm doing an MA and its going to be easier to take an extra math class over this summer then in the course of my MA.

It turns out real analysis isn't offered over the summer. Which course would be better to take, Intermediate Analysis or Advanced Multivariable Calculus? Or both? Or neither?

I'm looking at taking one or two of these 3 courses over the summer at a local university. Would either of the first two be considered "Real Analysis" by an adcom or am I going to have to take the 3rd one? (Note: this is a sequence of courses, the 1st is a prereq for the 2nd is a prereq for the 3rd). Thanks!! "Intermediate Analysis" TEXT: “Analysis with an Introduction to Proof”, fourth Edition, by Steven R. Lay, Prentice-Hall, 2001. This is the first rigorous theorem/proof-type course in analysis. Its role is to prepare students for advanced mathematics, especially for all higher math courses in analysis. The goal of the course is to teach students mathematical reasoning and the construction of proofs in the environment of http://www.math.uh.edu/Matweb/syllabi/3333/3333_files/image001.gif. Topics covered include the topology of http://www.math.uh.edu/Matweb/syllabi/3333/3333_files/image001.gif, convergence and limits, and the proofs of well-known calculus theorems such as the Mean Value Theorem, the Intermediate Value Theorem, the Inverse Function Theorem in http://www.math.uh.edu/Matweb/syllabi/3333/3333_files/image001.gif, and the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus. Some instructors may require students to write homework solutions at the board that will be critiqued by their classmates and/or the instructor. "Advanced Multivariable Calculus" RECOMMENDED TEXT: “VECTOR CALCULUS”, 4TH Edition, by Marsden and Tromba, Freeman Publ. 1996 Prereq: Intermediate Analysis. This is a first course in the basic theory and analysis underlying n-dimensional calculus. It will be important in preparing the student for any later courses involving analysis or calculus. There will be an emphasis on definitions, theorems and proofs. SUGGESTED SYLLABUS for "Advanced Multivariable Calculus" I. Topology of http://www.math.uh.edu/Matweb/syllabi/3333/3333_files/image001.gif Including vectors in http://www.math.uh.edu/Matweb/syllabi/3333/3333_files/image001.gif, the Cauchy-Schwarz and triangle inequalities, convergent sequences in R, open and closed sets, the closure and boundary, (a short discussion of) compactness, connectedness, limits and continuity, continuity with respect to the properties of compactness and connectedness and the Extreme Value Theorem. (The instructor may have to supplement the discussion of the topology of R) II. Multivariable differentiation. Including scalar functions of class C and C^k on an open set in http://www.math.uh.edu/Matweb/syllabi/3333/3333_files/image001.gif, the equality of mixed partial derivatives, Taylor's Theorem, extrema and the first and second derivative tests, the matrix-vector definition of the derivative of a function f: D subset R^n->R^m (2.3 and 2.7 in the recommended text) and its implications, the Chain Rule and at least a statement and an illustration of the Inverse and Implicit Function Theorems III. Multivariable integration. Including Riemann sums, the double and triple integral and their basic properties, Fubini's theorem, the Jacobian determinant and the change of variables formula. The emphasis is on rigorous definitions and (selected) proofs. Generalizations of the Fundamental Theorem of the Calculus, such as the Fundamental Theorem of Line Integrals, or the Divergence Theorem may be discussed if time permits. "Introduction to Real Analysis" Text: Set Theory & Metric Spaces, Kaplansky (AMS Chelsea). The text will be supplemented with extensive handouts Prereq: Advanced Multivariable Calculus. The emphasis will be on 1-variable theory and results from "classical analysis". Topics covered will include infinite series, sequences, functions (continuous, analytic, smooth), uniform convergence, Weierstrass Approximation theorem, Fourier series, the Gamma-function and the Euler-Maclaurin formula. There will also be a fairly extensive introduction about the real number system.

Thanks untitled! I really appreciate that. I'm not expecting a big jump in the quality of my acceptances, just perhaps more funded offers. I think getting an MA will help me in a lot of ways that may not necessarly translate into a much stronger profile for admissions purposes but would be important to me getting all the way through a PhD program. I'm planning on applying to UW next time around, perhaps as my "safety" because of how much I really did like it on my visit. So who knows, it is definitely possible I may be up there in a few years! Good luck up there next year!

Thank you for the response! It's very helpful to have someone with first hand experience with the program.

Did you use the program to apply to PhD programs? What types of places did people you went to school with get jobs? Where did they go onto PhD programs? How long ago where you in the program? Did you have a favorable impression of the faculty? What about the program focusing on international and development economics, do you have any information on that program? I was able to be admitted to both UCSC and UC Davis (Davis doesn't have a terminal master's program) for PhD programs this year but decided to do an MA since my background is not in economics and I have zero research experience. I know that the coursework is not going to be as rigorous as a first year PhD program but I feel that gaining more economics knowledge plus having the opportunity to do some research will be helpful towards obtaining a PhD, even if it doesn’t strengthen my application significantly. Any other thoughts/impressions you have of the program would be appreciated!

Would you care to elaborate on your experience in their Masters program? Was it for economics? Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

Thanks untitled, Econtastic, and Young Economist! In the end, I feel an MA will allow me to improve 3 big weaknesses in my profile: (1) Do some research and write a thesis which will allow me to have (2) stronger LOR’s and (3) a more focused SOP. The funding (even if it isn't full), the courses offered (all looked really interesting) and the opportunity to spend a summer in a developing country doing field research are things I really like about the program. Plus living in San Fran will be great!

I've decided to go to the University of San Francisco to get an MA and then try again in a couple years for a PhD!

PROFILE: Type of Undergrad: B.S. Mechanical Engineering, Minor Economics and Math at very large state school (top 15 engineering, top 50 economics) Undergrad GPA: 3.35/4.0 (3.65 Math, 4.0 Econ) Type of Grad: None Grad GPA: N/A GRE: 800Q, 550V, 4.0AW Math Courses: Calc I-III(A,B,A), Differential Equations (B), Linear Algebra (A), Mathematical Probability and Statistics (A), Fund Discrete Math (Spring 09) Econ Courses: Principles of Micro and Macro (A, CR by exam), Intermediate Micro and Macro theory, Econometrics (A,A,A) Other Courses: Lots of engineering Letters of Recommendation: 2 not well known assistant econ professors (UT-Austin, Rice) but excelled in their classes, 1 associate engr professor (Berkeley) that I went on a study abroad trip with Research Experience: none Teaching Experience: none Research Interests: International and Development SOP: Paragraph about why I wanted to do econ even though I did engineering as an undergrad, another on my interests, and another on why I wanted to be an academic. Slightly altered my interests paragraph depending on the school, but for the most part the same for each one. Other: Didn’t start considering this until fall of last year. RESULTS: Acceptances: UC Riverside (Fellowship), University of San Francisco MA in International and Development Economics (1/2 tuition remission + TA), UC Davis, University of Washington, UC Santa Cruz, Colorado, Oregon, UI-Chicago Waitlists: Oregon fellowship, eventually notified of no funding Rejections: Maryland, Boston University, Boston College, UT Austin, Michigan State, Georgetown, UBC MA Pending: Toronto MA, Queen’s MA What would you have done differently? I wouldn’t have applied to the Canadian MA’s (1 year wouldn’t have been enough to help me), Michigan State, UCSC, or UI-Chicago and maybe applied to a couple more reaches instead, but I really didn't think I would get into as many as I did. I don’t know if it would have changed anything though, after really thinking about it I think an MA is a very good choice for me. I’ve realized that my 3 economics courses hasn’t given me enough of a background in general economics knowledge. Yes I could learn it in the course of a PhD but I think strengthening my economics background will allow me to have more focus on what field I want to go into and give me more ideas when I eventually start to write my dissertation. An MA will also allow me to improve 3 big weaknesses in my profile: (1) Do some research which will allow me to have (2) stronger LOR’s and (3) a more focused SOP. I think I learned a lot in this application process and feel like I will be able to put together a much better application in 2 years after an MA. Attending: University of San Francisco MA in International and Development Economics

bump Anyone else have any thoughts on how this program would improve my profile?

The funding isn't complete. I'm going to get what amounts to a tuition remission for 16 of the 36 credits required for the 2 year program. I'll also have the opportunity to be a TA starting possibly the first but definitely the second semester as long as my grades are solid.