econ girl

Thanks for the advice, everybody! Much appreciated.

I applied to twenty schools so my letter-writers worked really hard for me. Are we supposed to get them gifts or some acknowledgement for their help now that the process is over? What have y'all done? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

PROFILE: Type of Undergrad: US top 40 LAC, no econ PhD program. BA in economics + BS in mathematics, theory concentration. Undergrad GPA: 3.8 Type of Grad: n/a Grad GPA: n/a GRE: 170Q, 165V, 5.5AW Math Courses: Multivariable Calc (B+), Linear Algebra (A), Intro to Proofs (B), Real Analysis (B+), Abstract Algebra (A), Measure Theory (A), Probability (B+), Operations Research (A), Ordinary Differential Equations (A), Topology (in progress when apps submitted), Nonlinear Dynamics and Chaos (in progress when apps submitted). Econ Courses: Intro, intermediate, advanced micro, intro and intermediate macro, principles of econ stats, econometrics, cross section econometrics, time series econometrics, empirical microeconomics, all A's. Then a few topics courses which were A's. Then...a C+ in development economics (don't ask). Other Courses: None that were relevant. Teaching Experience: TA for five courses, three of which were 400-level econometrics courses (I took them as a junior to have A's on my transcript for PhD apps). Research Experience: RA for a year and a half with chief economist at a development aid agency affiliated with my college. Summer project after my sophomore year. Senior honor's thesis. Letters of Recommendation: One from my advisor for the summer project + honor's thesis, his PhD is from a top 10 institution. One from one of my econometrics professors who I also TAed for, top 20 PhD. One from my intermediate and advanced micro professor, very well-known in his field. All were strong, my UG is known for close faculty-student relationships and I know they all really wanted to place me well this cycle (and they did!). Research Interests: Labor, econometrics. SOP: Three pages single-spaced about the independent research I've done + RAing. VERY technical. I tried to show that I'm ready for research, even though I was applying straight out of UG. RESULTS: Acceptances: Caltech, Wisconsin-Madison, UCSD, Johns Hopkins, UVA, UT-Austin. Waitlists: Maryland (priority), Cornell. Rejections: MIT, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Chicago, Michigan, Boston U, Duke, Berkeley, Stanford, U Penn, Carnegie Mellon. Attending: UCSD!!!!!! What would you have done differently? Not much. I knew I wanted the econ PhD since my first year of UG and I worked really hard to get as much research experience / useful econ classes as possible. I'm really glad I did the math major even if some of those grades hurt me because I think I'll do better in grad school with that exposure. I'm glad I applied to all the schools I did even though I didn't get into any T10 just so that way I'm not left wondering. There's also so much variance in the process, it was weird to get rejected from lower-ranked places while I was in at T15 places. At the end, it was a decision between Wisconsin and UCSD, and while it was a tough choice to make I'm so thrilled to be going to UCSD.

Ah, I hadn't thought of that. I definitely wouldn't want the faculty I'm interested in to leave!

The stipend is relatively low, 22 k at Wisconsin vs 31 k at CalTech, but it's guaranteed for five years at both places. So I'm not sure how much financial issues really impacts me. But thanks for the info!

Hi everybody, I've heard back from most of the schools I applied to, and the only top 20 programs I got into are CalTech and Wisconsin. I'm primarily interested in empirical micro, particularly labor, so Wisconsin seems like the natural choice – but then it feels strange that CalTech admitted me if my research interests are so far off from that of the department, as seems to be the general consensus from the professors at my undergrad. Is there anyone here that goes to CalTech and could tell me if the department is trying to move in a more empirical direction, or am I oversimplifying their research, or did they admit me on a mistake? Thanks for any info!

I think top 20 programs could be a little ambitious without a full math major, but assuming you get great grades, LORs, and some research experience you could be fine. Take my advice with a grain of salt though – I'm applying in the fall too, so I only know what I've read on here and what my advisors have told me.

I think real analysis and calc III are far more important than ODE. Analysis is very important for signaling; ODE doesn't hurt but it's not what adcoms are specifically looking for. And you can probably buy an ODE textbook and teach yourself the material of that course; teaching yourself analysis would prove much more difficult.

Life is too short to be this stressed about applying to grad school. Enjoy undergrad, join some clubs, get a girlfriend. Work very hard, but also take some time to breathe. After a night out with friends you'll probably approach the material with a much clearer head in the morning (assuming you don't have *too* much fun, that is). And, if something happens like a death in the family or a personal crisis, and you don't end up attending grad school, you'll be able to look back on the last 4 years and not feel like you wasted that time.

Darn, I was going to apply to Brown for the next cycle. If you don't mind me asking, are you confident in your source telling you that this year's cohort is large?

I'm taking a graduate econometrics course right now, and I think my math background has mattered far more than micro/macro. I wouldn't worry too much.

What topics are you covering in math stat? Is it your first, second or third course in statistics? I would think that if it's your first statistics class it would be better to take the B and then try to take a follow-up course and get an A in that. You want to show you have some exposure to the material – I think the econ PhD would be hard without knowing any stats whatsoever. If it's your second or third stats course...it's up to you. I am of the (probably unpopular) opinion that it's best to take as much math as possible, even if you don't get A's in all of the courses, just so you have the strongest knowledge base possible to start your PhD. This may hurt your signaling though, so don't take that advice as anything more than my personal preference.

Going off on a tangent here – but is it really that much worse to go to Chapel Hill or William & Mary verses Berkley or other public colleges with great PhD programs? I would think that going to a college that is competitive but doesn't have a PhD program would only hurt in that students can't take PhD classes before applying. Why else would it matter?

I go to a T40 liberal arts college with a strong emphasis on teaching, and most of the economics professors here have PhD's from T20 programs. The few that don't have research published in top journals. So unfortunately, it seems that placement into these types of programs probably requires a highly ranked PhD.

Bumping this evaluation – I have a somewhat similar profile, so I'd like to know what people think.

Thanks everybody for the input – ultimately, I can only do my best, but I will absolutely try to make my best an A. I appreciate the reassurance that there are other factors that go into admissions decisions. And, I can keep taking more math classes. Hopefully I'll get an A in probability this semester and maybe in math courses next semester. I will say that I go to a college that has absolutely no grade inflation – the median grade for this real analysis test was a 61, which we consider a D-. There's no curve for this test or for the final grades. And all my math classes have been like that – I got an 87 in intro to proofs and just missed B+. And my multivariable calc class that I got a B+ in only had one A final grade (which I know should have been me, but, it wasn't). Should I say in my SOP that I come from a school that has no grade inflation? Or is that going to sound whiny?

Thanks for the advice chateauheart – I'd never heard that rule of thumb before, very interesting (though of course not fool proof). publicaffairsny – T40 is hardly an elite university. A B or B+ probably is about the 70th or 75th percentile of my peers in the math department; maybe a little bit higher or lower depending on which courses they take. Additionally, my "ideas" require a strong foundation in mathematics – have you ever read an economics research paper? How can you explain fixed effects, IV estimation, etc. without at least basic calculus and linear algebra? Economics research requires mathematics, so of course admissions officers look for students that are strong in that subject! Additionally, math departments are more rigorous than economics departments, so it also solves the issue of signaling. For you to say that having some fantastic idea will get you into a good college, without having the necessary background to generate and then test that fantastic idea, is ridiculous. This isn't the 18th century. I asked this question not because I want to be a "robot" – quite to the contrary. I want a PhD in economics because I love the subject, and because being in academia allows you a certain degree of intellectual integrity. It's a life choice that will make me very happy, regardless of which program I attend. All I wanted to know was the degree to which a poor grade (and YES, that is a poor grade considering the competition for the econ PhD) would hurt my chances at certain schools so I can apply within my range and get in somewhere. I really don't know much about the economics PhD admissions process other than what I've gathered from talking to professors and reading this forum, so I don't comment on other people's threads. You would be well advised to do the same.

I'm a junior at a USNews T40 American college. I have a near perfect GPA in the economics department, as well as a summer research project and TA experience. But, my math grades have left something to be desired: B+ in calc III, A in linear algebra, B in intro to proofs (ouch), A in differential equations, A in abstract algebra. It seems like to get into a T20 university you need A's in most math classes, so I don't have much room for subpar grades. I'm taking real analysis and probability theory this semester - probability looks like A or A-, but I ****ed up a real analysis midterm to the point that I probably can't get a better grade than a B in the course. Have I completely shut myself out of the Top 20? What about Top 30, or Top 50? I still have next semester to take more math classes before applying next fall, but it seems like real analysis is one of the most important courses you can take to signal your intelligence. Thanks for any advice, I just want to have a realistic understanding of what schools I can shoot for.

Seconding this request.

Thanks for all the advice – I'm coming from a T40 school so it's probably best that I stay another year. If I graduated in 3 years I'd have the minimum amount of math required (calc I-III, linear, real analysis, and a couple topics courses) but I can take another real analysis class and/or topology if I do a fourth year. Plus I probably need to make more connections with the faculty; unfortunately, we don't have anyone who really stands out. But at least I can make the letters stronger if I have more time to build those relationships.

Did anyone here graduate early / is planning to graduate early? Would candidates with only 3 years of undergrad have a disadvantage compared to those with 4, even if they've taken the same amount of math?

Thanks for all this advice, it's absolutely put me at ease. I'll take the 12 credits and work on getting A's in all my courses.

Hi everybody – I'm a junior at a T40 public college. I've already taken calc I-III, linear algebra, intro to proofs, diff eq, and abstract algebra. This semester, I'm signed up for real analysis and probability, as well as two economics courses (one of which is grad-level econometrics). This only amounts to 12 credits. Are PhD admissions officers going to think that I'm taking too light of a load, considering that it's not like I'm at Harvard? I was signed up for advanced linear, but I don't think I'd get an A in the course (and the effort required to just get an A- or B+ might prevent me from getting an A in one of the other math courses). I've already gotten a B and a B+ in the math department and I'm not eager to get any more. In short – is 12 credits too few to be competitive, even if all the classes are math and economics? Thanks in advance.