Toulouse School of Economics - Offers 2012

[economist26]

Fellow posters, speaking of TSE admission results, if I have applied only this week, do you happen do have an opinion on when they might respond?

 

I am also wondering what are my chances of a positive feedback, given my application date, but I guess that is an ambitious curiosity...

 

I appreciate your feedback, good luck!

 

Have you applied before the deadline? If so, then you should have a decent enough chance of getting in. All the best.

[kondratieff]

In addition to the statements of my two TSE classmates in this thread (I totally agree with them), I would like to refer to this thread where some of the mentioned points had already been discussed:

http://www.www.urch.com/forums/phd-economics/137908-toulouse-offers-2012-a.html

[Jasonblue]

@kondratieff, Wow! seems that all of us are gathered here to protest against our school :)

 

@economist26:

I do endorse EVERYTHING that gkhn said! However, I'd be happy to provide some more info.

 

1. Not all profs are "bad". TSE does have some good profs who are good at (and care about) teaching, for example, my current supervisor for my thesis is quite nice to me. However, firstly, the good profs are a rare case, which means that no matter how, you'll always see some unpleasant profs who don't care about teaching at all. If you are lucky, you end up taking few courses with unpleasant profs; if not, you end up question about academia everyday and why the hell could such kind of profs get a job. In sum, I do not want you to think that all profs are bad here at TSE. Some of them are quite good, but unfortunately, they are just a very small portion.

 

2. Among those very few profs who care about teaching, again, a very small portion of them are approachable after class. This makes the total number of nice and approachable profs to a very small number.

 

3. Course levels are not low. If you don't make efforts, you won't get good grades for sure. However, if you do make efforts, in some cases you still won't get good grades, because grading is unreasonably tough (when I say "unreasonably", I literally mean some profs don't even give you a reason) and some profs won't even listen to you if you firmly believe that indeed solved the problem correctly. So, if you come here, when you take exams, be very careful, write exactly in the way they want/anticipate, otherwise, no one is gonna care about the injustice.

 

4. Kondratieff has mentioned in another thread he posted above: the exams are designed for the top students, if you are average (and considering point 3), making efforts or not makes no difference on the final score. And the grade of the course is only based on one final.

 

5. Then how do you learn?! Mostly through independent and peer studies. In class, you do your best, and then ask around your classmates after class if there are things you don't understand.

 

6. It's also my responsibility to tell you that not all students think like this. We do have one classmate of us (a crazy Chinese guy) who got the attention from the faculty and interacted with many famous profs a lot. However, if you ask around, 90% of the students will tell you the same as what we said (except French students who are probably used to the system). Whether you want to score for that 10% really depends not only on your academic super-excellence, but also on how you perceive your future luck at TSE (yes, you do need some luck).

 

7. Lastly, I need to remind you that what I have said is based on what happened this year. There is chance that this year is an outlier in the sample. Indeed, most of the profs for last semester seemed very inexperienced. and this semester has slightly improved. (SLIGHTLY!)

 

I tried my best to give you an objective view, but I hope you understand that every opinion has some bias. You should always try to hear from more people to balance the information.

 

Best of luck to your future PhD!

Edited March 9, 2012 by Jasonblue

[economist26]

@kondratieff, Wow! seems that all of us are gathered here to protest against our school :)

 

@economist26:

I do endorse EVERYTHING that gkhn said! However, I'd be happy to provide some more info.

 

1. Not all profs are "bad". TSE does have some good profs who are good at (and care about) teaching, for example, my current supervisor for my thesis is quite nice to me. However, firstly, the good profs are a rare case, which means that no matter how, you'll always see some unpleasant profs who don't care about teaching at all. If you are lucky, you end up taking few courses with unpleasant profs; if not, you end up question about academia everyday and why the hell could such kind of profs get a job. In sum, I do not want you to think that all profs are bad here at TSE. Some of them are quite good, but unfortunately, they are just a very small portion.

 

2. Among those very few profs who care about teaching, again, a very small portion of them are approachable after class. This makes the total number of nice and approachable profs to a very small number.

 

3. Course levels are not low. If you don't make efforts, you won't get good grades for sure. However, if you do make efforts, in some cases you still won't get good grades, because grading is unreasonably tough (when I say "unreasonably", I literally mean some profs don't even give you a reason) and some profs won't even listen to you if you firmly believe that indeed solved the problem correctly. So, if you come here, when you take exams, be very careful, write exactly in the way they want/anticipate, otherwise, no one is gonna care about the injustice.

 

4. Kondratieff has mentioned in another thread he posted above: the exams are designed for the top students, if you are average (and considering point 3), making efforts or not makes no difference on the final score. And the grade of the course is only based on one final.

 

5. Then how do you learn?! Mostly through independent and peer studies. In class, you do your best, and then ask around your classmates after class if there are things you don't understand.

 

6. It's also my responsibility to tell you that not all students think like this. We do have one classmate of us (a crazy Chinese guy) who got the attention from the faculty and interacted with many famous profs a lot. However, if you ask around, 90% of the students will tell you the same as what we said (except French students who are probably used to the system). Whether you want to score for that 10% really depends not only on your academic super-excellence, but also on how you perceive your future luck at TSE (yes, you do need some luck).

 

7. Lastly, I need to remind you that what I have said is based on what happened this year. There is chance that this year is an outlier in the sample. Indeed, most of the profs for last semester seemed very inexperienced. and this semester has slightly improved. (SLIGHTLY!)

 

I tried my best to give you an objective view, but I hope you understand that every opinion has some bias. You should always try to hear from more people to balance the information.

 

Best of luck to your future PhD!

 

That is an awesome post man. Thank you very much for all the information. Now I am very worried, and I honestly mean VERY worried! As you may have noticed from my previous posts, I do strongly believe that TSE has a very solid programme, but I am also willing to hear negative reviews about the university as well.

 

Now, if you do not mind my asking, what would you say is it that allows students to perform well or not on the M2? I know that one's abilities do definitely play a non-negligible role, but apart from that, is there anything in particular that would allow students to cope better with the courses, as in a sound mathematical preparation or strong micro/macro background? If so, could you please recommend the courses that you would personally have chosen to improve your chances?

 

As kondratieff has pointed out, the exams are set in such a way that only the best get through. He also mentioned that the exams are designed so that people having done the M1 at TSE have a considerable advantage over the rest. Hence, would you say that going through the M1 would itself count as very good training?

 

I would be grateful if you could please help me with these questions mate. You cannot imagine how worried I am at present! Thanks a lot again for your help.

[Jasonblue]

I was admitted directly into M2, and did not get through M1. But I agree that our classmates who went through M1 had some advantages, because on one hand, the M1 program is very rigorous (as far as you study hard and despite the poor teaching quality), and on the other hand, they have a lot of insider info.

 

To perform well on the exams, the rule of thumb is to study hard and pay enough effort.

 

Apart from that:

1. The most important: Talk to your classmates who took M1 or those in higher grade who took M2. Get some ideas of each instructor's personality and teaching style before choosing classes (core micro macro and metrics are mandatory for the first semester, so you don't have a choice but only to hope), and before taking exams. If those students tell you negative things about some profs, be warned that it may not be a good idea to take their classes, though some of them are great researchers. At TSE, there are many great researchers who don't care about teaching (I literally meant GREAT w.r.t their research)... So, checking their CV and publications is apparently NOT sufficient. Always try to get insider info.

 

2. Don't trust too much the tutorials. The tutorials are conducted by TAs separately for the corresponding classes. While it is always a dominant strategy to do your best on the problem sets, you should always bear in mind that the final exam might be very different from what you have done in the tutorials, and the exam problems can be very sporadic (honestly, I don't think profs spend much of their precious time making good exams problems).

 

3. Peer learning is very important. TSE does have many good students in their M2 program every year. Make friends with those who are both smart and friendly (willing to help), and discussions in many cases are more helpful than talking to some unpleasant profs.

 

4. At TSE, students don't have bargaining power at all. If you don't like a prof or don't agree with what he does, let it go... Always do your best on your part, and hope for the best.

 

5. Lastly, if you have any problems, talk to secretary Aude. She is the only one that every student respects (because she respects every student), and is respected by all the faculty members.

 

This is pretty much what I can come up with. You should always try to get more information from others.

 

Best wishes,

[economist26]

I was admitted directly into M2, and did not get through M1. But I agree that our classmates who went through M1 had some advantages.

 

To perform well on the exams, the rule of thumb is to study hard and pay enough effort.

 

Apart from that:

1. The most important: Talk to your classmates who took M1 or those in higher grade who took M2. Get some ideas of each instructor's personality and teaching style before choosing classes (core micro macro and metrics are mandatory for the first semester, so you don't have a choice but only to hope), and before taking exams. If those students tell you negative things about some profs, be warned that it may not be a good idea to take their classes, though some of them are great researchers. At TSE, there are many great researchers who don't care about teaching (I literally meant GREAT w.r.t their research)... So, checking their CV and publications is apparently NOT sufficient. Always try to get insider info.

 

2. Don't trust too much the tutorials. The tutorials are conducted by TAs separately for the corresponding classes. While it is always a dominant strategy to do your best on the problem sets, you should always bear in mind that the final exam might be very different from what you have done in the tutorials, and the exam problems can be very sporadic (honestly, I don't think profs spend much of their precious time making good exams problems).

 

3. Peer learning is very important. TSE does have many good students in their M2 program every year. Make friends with those who are both smart and friendly (willing to help), and discussions in many cases are more helpful than talking to some unpleasant profs.

 

4. At TSE, students don't have bargaining power at all. If you don't like a prof or don't agree with what he does, let it go... Always do your best on your part, and hope for the best.

 

5. Lastly, if you have any problems, talk to secretary Aude. She is the only one that every student respects (because she respects every student), and is respected by all the faculty members.

 

This is pretty much what I can come up with. You should always try to get more information from others.

 

Best wishes,

 

Thank you very much Jasonblue, that was very insightful. Your help is much appreciated. I thank you on behalf of everybody reading this thread as well. I will heed your advice and try and get in touch with the others too. I wish you all the best in your future studies mate.

[Miss Economist]

Have you applied before the deadline? If so, then you should have a decent enough chance of getting in. All the best.

 

Dear economist26, I did apply before the March deadline but with so much difficulty (due to my emails bouncing back) that I worry now that the feedback will arrive with great delay.... I have a deadline from BGSE at the end of the month so I am wondering whether I should hope for an answer from TSE by then or not....

[economist26]

Dear economist26, I did apply before the March deadline but with so much difficulty (due to my emails bouncing back) that I worry now that the feedback will arrive with great delay.... I have a deadline from BGSE at the end of the month so I am wondering whether I should hope for an answer from TSE by then or not....

 

Hello Miss Economist,

 

I know that the application process for the TSE can be quite daunting, especially because no confirmation email is received once one's application is submitted. One can just hope that one's application has gone through. I really do not know what advice to give, because I do not want to mislead you. I am sorry about that. I would not like to tell you to wait for the TSE to get back to you, since they may do so very late, and the opportunity to go to the BGSE will slip through your hands. However, I also cannot tell you to pay the deposit to BGSE, because if you do, and ultimately decide not to go there, you will have lost 600 euros (is that correct?). You could probably wait until a week before the BGSE deadline, and if TSE does not revert to you by then, then you will have to make up your mind. That is just my viewpoint, but I suggest talking to other people and seeking their advice as well. All the best.

[Miss Economist]

Hello Miss Economist,

 

I know that the application process for the TSE can be quite daunting, especially because no confirmation email is received once one's application is submitted. One can just hope that one's application has gone through. I really do not know what advice to give, because I do not want to mislead you. I am sorry about that. I would not like to tell you to wait for the TSE to get back to you, since they may do so very late, and the opportunity to go to the BGSE will slip through your hands. However, I also cannot tell you to pay the deposit to BGSE, because if you do, and ultimately decide not to go there, you will have lost 600 euros (is that correct?). You could probably wait until a week before the BGSE deadline, and if TSE does not revert to you by then, then you will have to make up your mind. That is just my viewpoint, but I suggest talking to other people and seeking their advice as well. All the best.

 

Hello economist26,

 

Your words are wisdom, indeed, TSE has a first filtering phase at the application - one has to really be motivated to attend TSE to go through all the technical glitches I had to. :stupid: Thank God I speak French, I would have not managed otherwise. As of now, hope and patience until deadline approaches!

 

On the BGSE response, you are right, I am risking 600 euros....but TSE might be worthwhile the wait, especially that BGSE accepted me in the MSc in Economics of Public Policy instead of the MSc in Economics. I am in doubt with respect to this MSc as it does not yet have a recognition on the market, as the Economics one...

 

What is your final choice of Master? I remarked you were in doubt as well.

 

Good luck

[economist26]

Hello economist26,

 

Your words are wisdom, indeed, TSE has a first filtering phase at the application - one has to really be motivated to attend TSE to go through all the technical glitches I had to. :stupid: Thank God I speak French, I would have not managed otherwise. As of now, hope and patience until deadline approaches!

 

On the BGSE response, you are right, I am risking 600 euros....but TSE might be worthwhile the wait, especially that BGSE accepted me in the MSc in Economics of Public Policy instead of the MSc in Economics. I am in doubt with respect to this MSc as it does not yet have a recognition on the market, as the Economics one...

 

What is your final choice of Master? I remarked you were in doubt as well.

 

Good luck

 

Thanks, I badly need luck with my applications. Well, I do not want to influence you, but I let go of the Barcelona GSE offer that I had for its MSc in Economics, even with a partial tuition waiver. I hope that I do not regret this decision later. My final choice? Well, I am not 100% confident about what I should, and will do next, since I am still waiting for admission offers from other universities. But I am, let's say, 60% sure that I will be attending Toulouse itself ultimately.

 

How about you? So, anybody else going to Toulouse for sure then?

[EcoPhd]

Hi there,

 

As I see I am not the only one applying for TSE this year;) I am trying to get in to the M2 in Economics and have a couple of questions about that.

 

They are asking us to attach a "resume and a brief statement of purpose for pursuing studies at Toulouse School of Economics".

 

1. What exactly is a resume?

 

2. How short is a brief SOP?

 

3. I wanted to go for M2 PUBLIC POLICIES & DEVELOPMENT doctoral track as this is what I focused on in my master studies. However, I`ve heard that it might be easier to get into ECOMATH. To be honest, I would even prefer to do the ECOMATH track, but somehow I think my profile fits better to PPD. Do you have any comments that could help me to make the right decision?

 

Thanks!

[econobot]

1. What exactly is a resume?

A standard CV

 

2. How short is a brief SOP?

No more than two pages.

 

3. I wanted to go for M2 PUBLIC POLICIES & DEVELOPMENT doctoral track as this is what I focused on in my master studies. However, I`ve heard that it might be easier to get into ECOMATH. To be honest, I would even prefer to do the ECOMATH track, but somehow I think my profile fits better to PPD. Do you have any comments that could help me to make the right decision?

 

I don't know, it depends on what do you want to do afterwards. If you're planning doing a Ph.D., you should apply to Ecomath because it's a more rigorous track.

[EcoPhd]

Thanks econobot!

 

1. Glad to hear that a resume is a standard CV! I thought I have to write something again ;) I was just a little confused because on the main page TSE asks applicants to hand in the application form, some other things and a CV. In the application form they state that you should attach a resume. So I thought it is two different things. Is a 1 page CV fine? I always had it 2 pages long, but now I changed it to one page and I like it better that way. Everything on one page is kind of nice I think.

 

2. Two pages should be doable.

 

3. I am planning to do the PhD. I do actually already have a Master in Economics (or I will have it in August) and want to do the PhD now. That is why I am applying to Master 2 at TSE (which is the first year of the doctoral programme). My choice is between ECOMATH doctoral track and PPD doctoral track. As I said, I would prefer ECOMATH (I love microeconomics, math, analytical stuff, pure econ theory, all that tough stuff that other people dislike about economics) over PPD, but my profile is a perfect fit for PPD. So I thought that it would probably be better to apply for that one (just to get in). Why is it that they offer a PPD doctoral track if they prefer PhD students that did the ECOMATH? And by the way, what exactly does the "MATH" refer to? It does not look like that much "MATH".

[econobot]

Is a 1 page CV fine?

 

Whatever suits you would be fine. Mine is 3 pages long because I like to present the abstract of some papers I've worked on.

 

Why is it that they offer a PPD doctoral track if they prefer PhD students that did the ECOMATH?

 

I've no idea, the French system is really complicated to understand for me. I just believe that if getting a Ph.D. is what you want, the ECOMATH track is the most efficient one, because you don't have to choose electives so early (thus you can remain open to different topics) and, most importantly, you can learn about theory and mathematical methods that you can apply afterwards in some specific field. Oh, and I believe the "MATH" part is because of the econometric courses.

[kondratieff]

I've no idea, the French system is really complicated to understand for me. I just believe that if getting a Ph.D. is what you want, the ECOMATH track is the most efficient one, because you don't have to choose electives so early (thus you can remain open to different topics) and, most importantly, you can learn about theory and mathematical methods that you can apply afterwards in some specific field. Oh, and I believe the "MATH" part is because of the econometric courses.

 

This is partly right. In five out of the eight courses you do in the M2, the ECOMATH and the PPD do not differ (Micro 1, Macro 1, Econometrics 1 in first semester, and two out of the three Micro 2, Macro 2, Eco 2 in second semester). I agree that the Ecomath sounds more impressive nevertheless. And if you go for economic theory, I definitely recommend it over the PPD. The PPD has interesting options if you're into development, but their focus is not surprisingly more applied. Option courses as advanced economic theory, advanced econometrics, game theory... can only be taken in Ecomath (maybe some of them also in Finance). Additionally, there are also some development classes that can be taken as options in Ecomath - in fact, it's possible that the Ecomath and PPD course program are identical.

A little note: You cannot(!) learn about mathematical methods in class, as this is done in M1 and all teachers in M2 assume you know them.

[sirhawk]

Hey guys! I was admitted to the M1 program just a month ago. It's actually the only place I've applied for so I'll be attending TSE next year.

 

Miss Economist, I don't really know what problems you ran through in your application but mine was pretty straightforward. I sent all documents to the email in the form and got a reply from Aude saying that everything was alright and I should hear back from them in 1 or 2 weeks, which as a matter of fact I did. If you are in a hurry I believe you should email and let her know your situation, she is really helpful.

 

Also, I know a guy who is doing the M1 right now and one of my professors did her PhD there some years ago. I heard no complaint from them. On contrary, she pretty much supported my decision of going.

[kondratieff]

Do what you have to do. :-) I just say TSE now turned out to be a dead end for a lot of students who cannot continue here and who do not get admitted to comparable other schools, despite the claimed TSE reputation.

[sirhawk]

I get your point, and I'm sure you have your reasons. Nevertheless, I believe that we should look closely to those lot of students who cannot continue either there or anywhere else. If they can't get into any good place, nor even there, maybe it's not the School's fault... maybe they're not good enough? Of course I don't know them, and I don't want to throw any assumption here (my respects to all of them), but I'm just saying there are other variables.

 

Anyway, I'm happy with my decision and really trust my chances to get into a Top US Phd afterwards.

[kondratieff]

I was unclear: People now get admitted to basically the same schools and programs they were admitted to before going to TSE, but not to better ones. The question for many is now whether the courses from TSE can be taken to other programs, or whether the year has more or less to be considered as lost. For those who got admitted to the US (currently 5 - not that many), I am very sure that TSE didn't matter for their admission, but what they did before - as some of them had applied without having the first grades from TSE.

But I guess you have to be here to believe it - good luck. :-)

[xiar]

Man, CEMFI is like hell. Has solid placement but if you come here, prepare yourself to doing nothing else than solving problem sets for two years. Academically it is very good but non-academic environment is very bad. I (and many other people) feel suffocating here

 

Hi, I've just seen your comment and, as I've been accepted at CEMFI next year and have to decide between that and another similar program in Spain - just a not as hard one, I'd really appreciate if you could explain more extendedly why it is "hell" for you...

How many hours a day do you have to dedicate to keep up with the workload?... What do you mean exactly by bad "non-academic environment"? Do you still have a life beside studies or you have no time for any other thing? Would you have chosen this option if you had known before how it was going to be?

 

Well, I'd be very grateful if someone "from inside" informed me a bit, as I am gathering opinions from different people on that dilemma right now. (you can do it privately if you prefer)

:)

[EcoPhd]

Hey guys,

 

me again. I contributed to this thread a month ago or so.

 

Today I found a letter sent by TSE in my mailbox. I was accepted in the doctoral path M2 PPD. Did anyone else got a letter these days?

 

They enclosed this "official letter of pre-registration". In this letter, however, they did not fill out the gap between "the" and "year", where somebody should have filled in "second" manually. Anyone the same problem?

 

They also asked me to reply by April 30th.

 

This was my first application. Want to do a Phd. I don`t really know what to do now! Accept, reject? All these negative comments let me doubt. Any suggestions? Would it be dump to reject a TSE offer. As I said, I don`t have anything else at the moment. I am applying mostly to german universities and only to a couple (of probabaly "better") programmes abroad. I would like to talk to somebody who also got a letter like this recently. If there is somebody, ...

 

Oh, and what about funding. Do they normally give out money to M2 doctoral track students from abroad, or does funding start after M2 or not at all? How does that work?

[kondratieff]

They enclosed this "official letter of pre-registration". In this letter, however, they did not fill out the gap between "the" and "year", where somebody should have filled in "second" manually. Anyone the same problem?

 

:-D

 

Oh, and what about funding. Do they normally give out money to M2 doctoral track students from abroad, or does funding start after M2 or not at all? How does that work?

 

In general: no. Eiffel deadline is gone. The five best students from M1 got a scholarship for M2 plus three new incoming M2 students.

[PureB]

Hi, I was admitted to the M1 program and noticed that options for M2 program have changed. There is only one doctoral track, Economic Theory and Econometrics (ETE), which is comparable to the first PhD year, and the other six options do not aim to prepare students for PhD programs. Do most students in ETE continue they study in TSE after completing M2? What are their chances to go to US or UK for PhD?

[mali2]

Hello PureB,

 

I have been accepted into the M2-EMO, looking to others conversations I think is really difficult to take the M1 or M2 as path to a US Phd. Did you get the eiffel Scholarship option? Do you know when Campus France will make a decision?

[wastra]

I was unclear: People now get admitted to basically the same schools and programs they were admitted to before going to TSE, but not to better ones. The question for many is now whether the courses from TSE can be taken to other programs, or whether the year has more or less to be considered as lost. For those who got admitted to the US (currently 5 - not that many), I am very sure that TSE didn't matter for their admission, but what they did before - as some of them had applied without having the first grades from TSE.

But I guess you have to be here to believe it - good luck. :-)

 

How would you say that TSE compares to BGSE in this regard?

 

I'm also curious as to whether or not the quality of teaching is so bad, and if it's true that teachers don't care that much about their students... Some other person claimed that earlier in the thread (8 years ago, so perhaps not relevant at all?)