Admission Sweat Thread 2014

[thuswindburn]

In all seriousness, I can't figure out why there isn't just one online application (run by applyyourself), where you put in all of your information and select the schools that you want to send it to. They could allow you to upload a customized SOP for each one, but everything else should pretty much be the same. Given that most of the schools hire applyyourself to run admissions anyway, it would seem to be pretty simple for them to make one application form for everyone.

 

I know Texas does this with med schools. Pretty sure med schools also have a nationwide thing too. Who knows why Ph.D programs haven't gotten with the program

[Catrina]

I know Texas does this with med schools. Pretty sure med schools also have a nationwide thing too. Who knows why Ph.D programs haven't gotten with the program

 

Texas does this in general. UT Austin and Texas A&M both used the common application.

[Khansian]

I know Texas does this with med schools. Pretty sure med schools also have a nationwide thing too. Who knows why Ph.D programs haven't gotten with the program

 

And for law school apps LSAC handles most of the applications. Letter-writers submit their letters only once onto the site. Many schools have supplemental apps, but it's relatively easy to duplicate things at that point.

[NBZ]

Why can't the schools read this? http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economic-sciences/laureates/2012/popular-economicsciences2012.pdf

[Catrina]

I just wish that, if they couldn't send the offer before 4/15, they would have waited until after my exam tomorrow. It is hard to focus on general equilibrium problems when I'm thinking about this.

 

I am, of course, aware that they had no way of knowing that I have a midterm tomorrow :)

[shelley]

Catrina, I'm probably not in the position to say this since you have much more life experience than I do, but I think whichever school you choose, you are fine as long as you can make sure that you won't wake up one morning some years from now and regret your decision today.

[NBZ]

I am, of course, aware that they had no way of knowing that I have a midterm tomorrow :)

 

Tell them right away. Instruct them to withdraw the offer and then make it again after your exam.

[Catrina]

I should have known that something like this would happen, because things in my life often don't go quite as planned. But if I have to keep getting surprises, couldn't I have gotten a surprise offer from MIT? I know that I didn't apply there, but still.

 

 

(My inclination now is to keep my current choice, but I really do need some time to think about this)

[colacoca]

Catrina, I'm very new to all this so take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

If you think OSU is strictly better than Rice, you should go to OSU. Remember, the professors at Rice probably got their PhD's at top universities and, even if they're on the rise, they will understand that it may be better for you to go to OSU. I was in kind of a similar situation with Maryland. I got a very generous offer and really fell in love with the department after meeting all the professors. However, when I told the DGA that I was between the Fed RA job and Maryland, he didn't hesitate to tell me I should take the RA job because it was the clear better choice. Professors understand that you need to do what's best for you. If the professors at Rice can't see that you're acting in your best interest, then are they really the kind of people you need to worry about having good contacts with?

 

Just my two cents. You seem like you'll be fine with whichever choice you make. Good luck and try to remember that this is a nice problem to have, even though it is a difficult choice.

[ForbiddenDonut]

I should have known that something like this would happen, because things in my life often don't go quite as planned. But if I have to keep getting surprises, couldn't I have gotten a surprise offer from MIT? I know that I didn't apply there, but still.

 

 

(My inclination now is to keep my current choice, but I really do need some time to think about this)

 

I'm struggling to come up with a reason as to why you should go to Rice. If the Professors at Rice don't like you backing out of the offer, screw em. They in that case obviously don't have your best interests at hand. Life is too short to care about people being mad about you jumping 20 ranks. They'll forget about it by next year.

[Catrina]

I'm struggling to come up with a reason as to why you should go to Rice. If the Professors at Rice don't like you backing out of the offer, screw em. They in that case obviously don't have your best interests at hand. Life is too short to care about people being mad about you jumping 20 ranks. They'll forget about it by next year.

 

The reason why I have been thinking that way isn't just due to the concern that I have about backing out, it is due to being impressed by the changes that they are making. They hired a new chair this year (Merlo from Penn), three other really strong people, and have permission and funding to hire a few more within the next few years. They are also massively changing the program next year (making the first year courses more rigorous, etc.). I also know that there are other accepted students who turned down schools ranked similarly to OSU to attend.

 

However, while I do really believe that the program will improve, and with its new focus, it is an excellent fit for my interests, I have no idea how long it will take for the improvements to affect the ranking. And I'm not sure to what degree the ranking will hurt me on the market, and to what degree it would be mitigated by having a well-known advisor. Houston is also a somewhat better location for my husband than Columbus, although Columbus would work way better than Tucson would have.

 

This is why I'm so confused.

[to2012]

FWIW it seems that conjectures about schools jumping dramatically in rankings or perception over short periods of time are usually quite optimistic. I have heard this about a program that I strongly considered (USC) and about others that I didn't apply to (WUSTL) and it doesn't seem that reality really meshes, ultimately, with these types of expectations.

[Econhead]

Catrina,

 

 

I mean no disrespect, but I think that you are thinking about this with your heart more than your mind, and romanticizing the outcomes. I have done some reading about Merlo-that said, Short of hiring some nobel/JBC medal winners, Rice is not going to rise to OSUs rank by the time you graduate, nor will your placement be (on average) as good, Ceteris Paribus.

 

 

Although Merlo may be a great professor, you should take into account the difference between hiring someone for an endowed chair vs. a regular position vs. a department chair. You won't get the same benefit out of this individual as you would if they were an endowed chair (and likely don't have the same connections/ability to place you)-otherwise they would be. Case in point, how often is a department chair's LOR one that you really want over at least one of the other professors in the (any) department.

 

 

If fit is OK and it works for you and Hubby, go to OSU..

 

if I am wrong about anything above, someone feel free to correct me.

[NBZ]

FWIW it seems that conjectures about schools jumping dramatically in rankings or perception over short periods of time are usually quite optimistic. I have heard this about a program that I strongly considered (USC) and about others that I didn't apply to (WUSTL) and it doesn't seem that reality really meshes, ultimately, with these types of expectations.

 

All the departments I talked to talk about their new hires, new direction and how this is going to transform their program. Every department believes it is on the rise. I think there is a disconnect somewhere, and I think we as applicants have to be able to sort out what is real from what is being hoped (I am by no means implying Rice is not on the rise, don't know enough about the program to be able to say that).

[forummate]

I agree to Econhead. In general, school will place you to the lower rank schools, right? It is almost impossible for a school to jump by 20 ranks in 5 years.

Therefore, the only thing that can matter now is who you will work and study with, and whether that individual has the ability to place you better than others. Maybe it is worth having a chat with your letter recommenders?

 

However, congratulations Catrina!! More and more are admitting your ability.

[jazzhands]

I literally cannot believe that I just got an Ohio State offer with a full fellowship. This was completely unexpected, especially since I was told two weeks ago that the chances of getting a fully funded offer were very small, and that I should therefore "consider my other options". Not only that, I emailed to withdraw from the waitlist after accepting Rice.

 

Now I'm really, really confused.

 

Long time lurker -- first time poster.

 

I'm in the exact same position with a similarly ranked acceptance. Got the OSU offer yesterday. Does anyone have impressions from the OSU flyout this year? Particularly interested in the experimental/behavioral/IO side of things. Also any general perceptions of the area -- am I right to imagine the immediate OSU area is similar to a Madison/PSU/etc type of big state school vibe (with lots to do and walk/bus to?)

 

This is all very stressful -- but probably a good type of stress.

Edited April 17, 2014 by jazzhands

[Catrina]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I am definitely going to take some time to think through everything, and I will try to talk to some people in person as well. I also welcome more advice and comments. To address some specific things:

 

1. I definitely do think that it will take longer than five years for Rice to even approach the ranking of Ohio State. However, what I'm not clear on is to what degree program reputation vs. advisor reputation matters. Of course, the two are usually very strongly correlated, but this is a bit of an exception. The other people whom Rice recently hired are from top departments (and people who were doing really well there), and that is the plan for the hires over the next few years too. My advisors have told me that I should focus on the advisors rather than the program, but they could be wrong on that. (BTW, Merlo does seem to have an endowed chair as well, in addition to being department chair)

 

2. I agree that every program claims to be improving, and some are more believable than others. Rice strikes me as being more believable due to hiring people in the right part of the age distribution (unlike those schools who hire semi-retired people to improve), hiring a lot of them, having support from the administration, and being higher-ranked in other fields. That said, improvements do take time and reputations take a really long time to change.

 

I'm also a little concerned about fit regarding OSU. However, OSU is of course a much higher ranked department, so I should definitely seriously consider taking it. I'm also very reluctant to back out of a commitment.

 

I am seriously considering the option, but I'm just not sure what to think at this point.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Catrina

[2Iron]

I got a couple of private messages asking where I ultimately chose to go, so I figured I'd post it here. For the record, I'm going to Northwestern! Congrats to all.

[sn0skier]

What I'm not clear on is to what degree program reputation vs. advisor reputation matters. Of course, the two are usually very strongly correlated, but this is a bit of an exception. The other people whom Rice recently hired are from top departments (and people who were doing really well there), and that is the plan for the hires over the next few years too. My advisors have told me that I should focus on the advisors rather than the program, but they could be wrong on that. (BTW, Merlo does seem to have an endowed chair as well, in addition to being department chair)

 

One thing that I have consistently heard from a variety of very credible sources (including Greg Mankiw's article on picking a grad school & a Harvard Kennedy school Professor who chose MIT for a specific professor and ended up disliking him and never working with him) is that you should never pick a department because you plan to work with, or be advised by, a specific person. There are a number of reasons for this:

1. You may not like him once you meet him.

2. He may not like you.

3. He may leave the program; seems unlikely in this case but crazier things have happened.

4. You may not be able to work with him for other reasons. (He will be very busy as a new department chair, he could get in a tragic car accident, etc...)

5. You want to remain open to different areas of research as you learn more about economics in general. You don't want to tie yourself down to a specific person with specific research area too early.

6. His research path can become irrelevant/discredited. You don't want to tie yourself down to a specific person with specific ideas within a certain research area too early.

 

For these reasons, I would not depend on Merlo. At that point you have to consider the possibility that other good professors will not be hired as quickly as planned (nothing ever happens as quickly as planned) and that, even if they are, they may not hire an equally good professor that has expertise in the area you end up wanting to study. Also, there is the possibility that OSU will improve their department as well.

 

On the other hand, fit is important, and success will have more to do with how hard you work then where you go. Quality of life is also important, so if you are absolutely sure that this will be much better at Rice because of your significant other, that is worth considering.

 

In the end though Ohio State seems to have much better rankings than Rice. In every ranking I found (including NRC and RePec-research produced by US economics departments, Tilburg) by choosing OSU over Rice you will go from significantly behind my school (CU-Boulder) to significantly ahead. The only ranking for which this isn't true is for the RePec-Strength of produced PhD students, for which OSU still significantly outranks Rice.

 

Finally, in regards to placements (which may be the most important of all) OSU seems to do better, though the best placement (UM-College Park) came from Rice.

 

You probably knew all this already, but anyway, these are the things that I think are important.

[sn0skier]

I guess I should also mention that, according to NRC, Rice has a higher completion percentage (32% compared to 50%, though I am skeptical of these numbers) while OSU graduates are better able to get academic positions (46% vs. 26%, again somewhat skeptical) and RA positions instead of TA positions.

[Catrina]

BTW, I should mention that if I do end up keeping my current commitment to Rice, I'm not intending on having Merlo as my primary advisor (although I wouldn't rule out the possibility). I was actually thinking of working with one of the people whom he hired this year. I'm not just considering it for one person. Edited April 20, 2014 by Catrina

[yankeefan]

Rice strikes me as being more believable due to hiring people in the right part of the age distribution (unlike those schools who hire semi-retired people to improve)

 

You've just pissed off about 80 CUNY grad students and the thousands more who are now suddenly planning to apply for their grad program.

[Catrina]

I'm actually considering driving to Ohio to visit the department

[Econhead]

I'm actually considering driving to Ohio to visit the department

 

If you drive in at night, be very careful around downtown. The cops there are complete ****s in my opinion. They like to sit between an on/off ramp and stand outside the car and clock people when the speed changes from 65 to 55, or 55 to 45.

 

Full disclosure: Never had a ticket there, but I have driven through/around a lot and spent a little time there. .

[adam12]

In every ranking I found (including NRC and RePec-research produced by US economics departments, Tilburg) by choosing OSU over Rice you will go from significantly behind my school (CU-Boulder) to significantly ahead.

 

I hate to break it to you sn0skier, but Rice isn't significantly behind CU-Boulder.

CU-Boulder>Rice according to NRC R- & S-Rankings, RePEc, and Tilburg.

Rice>CU-Boulder according to US News econ grad rank, NRC Student Support/Outcomes, econphdnet, and the testmagic admissions difficulty.

 

Rice is difficult to rank because it's a much smaller program (which is why is why it's ranked lower by Tilburg, and part of why it's ranked lower at RePEc).

 

Sure, just about every ranking puts Ohio State well above Rice, but ultimately it's not just about rankings. More subjective measures like geography, program fit, and expected outcomes should be strongly considered as well if anyone is going to be happy at the program they select.