Difference between Economic Policy & Public Economics?

[dogbones]

What about summer internships at the CBO (congressional budget office) or CEPR (center for economic & policy research)?

[startz]

What about summer internships at the CBO (congressional budget office) or CEPR (center for economic & policy research)?

Those might be valuable, depending on who you were actually working with.

 

Also, I may have sounded too discouraging. A summer internship could be very valuable in learning stuff, including how interested you are in doing economics. They're just not likely to do a huge amount of good as a credential for getting into graduate school.

[tm_member]

startz: Thank you for your ideas, it's so great to have someone offer me feedback at this stage in my career.

 

1. Actually, I'd say half of the 20 or so Econ faculty at UH Manoa know me personally (since I was an eager Econ major & doctoral program admit in 2013).

2. Actually, the faculty at UH Manoa are amazing, there's Princeton, Rice, Caltech, Columbia, UPenn, Berkeley, Michigan, and more among others. Which is one reason why I want to get my PhD on the mainland, because nobody in the dept. has a PhD from Hawaii and I understand that people don't really select from their own crop to serve on faculty unless it's a top school.

3. I'd consider it, but it's one of the last places I'd want to get a PhD. I don't even think it pays a stipend, in addition to making it extremely difficult to work as a professor at UH Manoa afterwards.

4. I'm all for the MA at UH Manoa because I've been informally accepted already and it's the only respectable Econ MA program in Hawaii where I live. Otherwise I'd have to do online since I can't afford to live outside of Hawaii, and online programs like Johns Hopkins are also expensive in themselves.

5. Yes, my undergraduate GPA wasn't good, but it's good enough to have a compelling comeback in my MA program and then be admitted, provided there are other very positive factors.

6. You might be right, but shoot for the stars and I'll land on the moon, right? I find it highly motivating to make Harvard & MIT my target schools too, which helps me learn the material with a lot of zest.

7. I think I might be able to get letters like that with some publications and a cum laude GPA.

8. I tried to contact the Fed and ask them what their acceptance rate was and what would make me a more competitive applicant. After 3 emails, the email they provided said to email this lady called Brittney, who I did email and haven't heard back from yet. I emailed her over a month ago. Not good with follow up...

9. I thought an MBA would give me a broader worldview, and I want to be an entrepreneur at a later point in my life too anyway!

 

Yes, I've been to the math review session back in 2012, and it was decent. But I'm learning a whole lot more now in my weekends and evenings...

 

An MBA will neither broaden your world view nor help you be an entrepreneur. I’m not sure you understand what each of these programs is for.

 

Moreover, I’m confident, at this point, to recommend you go work for 3 or 4 years instead of undertaking expensive degrees. If you still are interested, pursue it then.

[dogbones]

tm_member: I have worked for 4 years now in insurance sales since finishing college, and it has helped me tremendously. I had lots of good mentoring and learned from different coaching programs. I've heard it before when people say a degree won't help you do something, but the something that I want to do is understand and experience business from a serious perspective with rigor. And an online MBA is perfect for me, and I've seen it with my own two eyes in the insurance business of working with small business owners and HR/CFO/Controllers of larger companies, that an MBA would definitely serve me well and give me structure and credentials for my future.

[dogbones]

startz: Thank you for your ideas, it's so great to have someone offer me feedback at this stage in my career.

 

1. Actually, I'd say half of the 20 or so Econ faculty at UH Manoa know me personally (since I was an eager Econ major & doctoral program admit in 2013).

2. Actually, the faculty at UH Manoa are amazing, there's Princeton, Rice, Caltech, Columbia, UPenn, Berkeley, Michigan, and more among others. Which is one reason why I want to get my PhD on the mainland, because nobody in the dept. has a PhD from Hawaii and I understand that people don't really select from their own crop to serve on faculty unless it's a top school.

3. I'd consider it, but it's one of the last places I'd want to get a PhD. I don't even think it pays a stipend, in addition to making it extremely difficult to work as a professor at UH Manoa afterwards.

4. I'm all for the MA at UH Manoa because I've been informally accepted already and it's the only respectable Econ MA program in Hawaii where I live. Otherwise I'd have to do online since I can't afford to live outside of Hawaii, and online programs like Johns Hopkins are also expensive in themselves.

5. Yes, my undergraduate GPA wasn't good, but it's good enough to have a compelling comeback in my MA program and then be admitted, provided there are other very positive factors.

6. You might be right, but shoot for the stars and I'll land on the moon, right? I find it highly motivating to make Harvard & MIT my target schools too, which helps me learn the material with a lot of zest.

7. I think I might be able to get letters like that with some publications and a cum laude GPA.

8. I tried to contact the Fed and ask them what their acceptance rate was and what would make me a more competitive applicant. After 3 emails, the email they provided said to email this lady called Brittney, who I did email and haven't heard back from yet. I emailed her over a month ago. Not good with follow up...

9. I thought an MBA would give me a broader worldview, and I want to be an entrepreneur at a later point in my life too anyway!

 

Yes, I've been to the math review session back in 2012, and it was decent. But I'm learning a whole lot more now in my weekends and evenings...

 

startz: What do you think about this?

[startz]

startz: Thank you for your ideas, it's so great to have someone offer me feedback at this stage in my career.

 

1. Actually, I'd say half of the 20 or so Econ faculty at UH Manoa know me personally (since I was an eager Econ major & doctoral program admit in 2013).

2. Actually, the faculty at UH Manoa are amazing, there's Princeton, Rice, Caltech, Columbia, UPenn, Berkeley, Michigan, and more among others. Which is one reason why I want to get my PhD on the mainland, because nobody in the dept. has a PhD from Hawaii and I understand that people don't really select from their own crop to serve on faculty unless it's a top school.

 

This is all good, and you're right about the UH faculty having strong backgrounds. They've been to the kind of programs you're interested in. So ask them for advice

 

 

5. Yes, my undergraduate GPA wasn't good, but it's good enough to have a compelling comeback in my MA program and then be admitted, provided there are other very positive factors.

Ask the UH faculty where the best student from the MA program usually goes. That will give you an idea of what a "comeback" will require.

 

6. You might be right, but shoot for the stars and I'll land on the moon, right? I find it highly motivating to make Harvard & MIT my target schools too, which helps me learn the material with a lot of zest.

That's the spirit!

[Zubrus]

nvm...

[dogbones]

startz: Your positive words are so inspiring, thank you... do you think I should email them or would it be better to go into campus and talk with them in person? I would probably retain more information if there was email, but I think I would have a better conversation if I were there in person. Decisions, decisions... ;o)

[startz]

Talk to them in person. Bring a copy of your transcript (doesn't have to be official) and maybe a cv. At some point, ask them what range they think you should apply to and if their response isn't what you want to aim for ask what it would take to aim elsewhere.

[tm_member]

tm_member: I have worked for 4 years now in insurance sales since finishing college, and it has helped me tremendously. I had lots of good mentoring and learned from different coaching programs. I've heard it before when people say a degree won't help you do something, but the something that I want to do is understand and experience business from a serious perspective with rigor. And an online MBA is perfect for me, and I've seen it with my own two eyes in the insurance business of working with small business owners and HR/CFO/Controllers of larger companies, that an MBA would definitely serve me well and give me structure and credentials for my future.

 

An online MBA and a PhD in Economics have no useful overlap. They serve different purposes and one of them will be a waste of your time. Go ahead and search through the faculty at the top 100 schools in Economics. That’s probably 2,000 faculty. If even one of them them had an online MBA listed on their CV I’d be shocked.

[dogbones]

tm_member: You might be right, but I wouldn't bet $1M against an Econ professor also having an MBA. I wouldn't even bet $200. You have heard of the field of Business Economics I'm guessing? They have PhD programs in that subspecialty. From a well-rounded intellectual's perspective, neither would be a waste of time for me, each serves it's own functions and the thing about me is that I don't plan to start a family which gives me more time to do different things when most people may in reality be forced to narrow their focus.

[tm_member]

tm_member: You might be right, but I wouldn't bet $1M against an Econ professor also having an MBA. I wouldn't even bet $200. You have heard of the field of Business Economics I'm guessing? They have PhD programs in that subspecialty. From a well-rounded intellectual's perspective, neither would be a waste of time for me, each serves it's own functions and the thing about me is that I don't plan to start a family which gives me more time to do different things when most people may in reality be forced to narrow their focus.

 

I didn't say an MBA. I said an online MBA.

 

Being a successful PhD student and researcher requires focus and dedication. You appear to want to hedge your bets. That isn't a recipe for success in almost all cases. You might be the exception... if so, good for you and best of luck.

[zshfryoh1]

tm_member: You might be right, but I wouldn't bet $1M against an Econ professor also having an MBA. I wouldn't even bet $200. You have heard of the field of Business Economics I'm guessing? They have PhD programs in that subspecialty. From a well-rounded intellectual's perspective, neither would be a waste of time for me, each serves it's own functions and the thing about me is that I don't plan to start a family which gives me more time to do different things when most people may in reality be forced to narrow their focus.

 

The number of top 100 B-school faculty members (excluding accounting faculty) under the age of 50 with an MBA of any kind is close to zero and the numbers for econ dept professors are lower than that. The PhD and MBA are on two totally different tracks and the skills and training for one are not really portable to the other. When I went to NYU Stern's PhD open house the Dean of PhD programs made sure to emphasize this point and basically said that an MBA regardless of school or GPA was close to irrelevant in B-school PhD applications and as startz mentioned earlier it has zero value in econ PhD applications.

 

If you want to do the MBA in order to further yourself in the business world, that is fine. And there now are a number of top 50 B-schools offering fully online MBA programs that are close in quality to their in class MBA programs (CMU Tepper and UNC Kenan-Flagler immediately come to mind). But if you are doing an MBA, especially an online MBA as a way to move toward a PhD in econ, you are wasting your time and money.

[startz]

tm_member: You might be right, but I wouldn't bet $1M against an Econ professor also having an MBA. I wouldn't even bet $200. You have heard of the field of Business Economics I'm guessing? They have PhD programs in that subspecialty. From a well-rounded intellectual's perspective, neither would be a waste of time for me, each serves it's own functions and the thing about me is that I don't plan to start a family which gives me more time to do different things when most people may in reality be forced to narrow their focus.

 

I didn't say an MBA. I said an online MBA.

 

Being a successful PhD student and researcher requires focus and dedication. You appear to want to hedge your bets. That isn't a recipe for success in almost all cases. You might be the exception... if so, good for you and best of luck.

 

dogbones, listen to tm_member.

 

Getting an economics PhD is about depth, not breadth. There may be academic positions that want "a well-rounded intellectual's perspective," but in economics that's at best a tertiary goal. lf your long-term goal is to end up on the faculty at UH, maybe you should think about whether you are sure an economics PhD is the best match to your strengths or whether a related area is better. Take a look at the faculty in the UH business school for example.

[YaSvoboden]

I'm a recent graduate from a business PhD. I would bet that you have a higher chance of getting into a top 30 business program than a top 30 economy program. I don't think you have a solid grasp on your research interests, but they may fall in line with some business programs.

 

I scanned UH's business faculty and they hire from good schools. There is a business PhD forum on here that would be helpful if you want to learn more.

[dogbones]

I appreciate everyone's comments who posted recently, and I can say that my interests in economic policy have not much to do with a business PhD, nor did I ever express any interest in getting a PhD in business... that being said, thank you for your conventional wisdom, but it's not in line with my objectives.

[applicant12]

Kudos to the patience of the folks here. I wouldn't have been able to get through 4pgs

 

Anyway @dogbones: I hope you will eventually prove me wrong, but I doubt your application would even be read at any top 15-20 schools, and it would surprise me if you got into any of the top 50 schools with full funding. You might have a shot outside of the top 50. Not trying to discourage you, and I hope you'll succeed and come back here and give me the finger and tell me I'm wrong, but some truths are tough to swallow.

 

Why did I make these statements? First off, you don't have the GPA to make the cutoff at several schools. Second, at schools where your applications are read, as of right now you haven't shown admission committees that you can do serious math, nor have you shown them you're an excellent student that they should fund for 5-6yrs (and to me personally, I don't know how an B- average student with occasional Cs on his/her transcript can be so confident that he/she can ace all those advanced math classes). Third, they will look at the MA-MBA combo, presumably completed simultaneously, and will definitely question whether you know what you are getting into and what your goal of doing a PhD is.

[dogbones]

Kudos to the patience of the folks here. I wouldn't have been able to get through 4pgs

 

Anyway @dogbones: I hope you will eventually prove me wrong, but I doubt your application would even be read at any top 15-20 schools, and it would surprise me if you got into any of the top 50 schools with full funding. You might have a shot outside of the top 50. Not trying to discourage you, and I hope you'll succeed and come back here and give me the finger and tell me I'm wrong, but some truths are tough to swallow.

 

Why did I make these statements? First off, you don't have the GPA to make the cutoff at several schools. Second, at schools where your applications are read, as of right now you haven't shown admission committees that you can do serious math, nor have you shown them you're an excellent student that they should fund for 5-6yrs (and to me personally, I don't know how an B- average student with occasional Cs on his/her transcript can be so confident that he/she can ace all those advanced math classes). Third, they will look at the MA-MBA combo, presumably completed simultaneously, and will definitely question whether you know what you are getting into and what your goal of doing a PhD is.

 

How are you offering anything different from what I have already stated about my undergraduate record? That's the whole reason I'm pursuing graduate work in the first place prior to my PhD. Thanks for trying to offer your perspective but it's just a bunch of negativity-siding like the last ten or so posts in this thread. I don't need you to tell me I don't have a shot. That's indecent and you don't need to defend yourself because that'll just be more of the same.

[applicant12]

How are you offering anything different from what I have already stated about my undergraduate record? That's the whole reason I'm pursuing graduate work in the first place prior to my PhD. Thanks for trying to offer your perspective but it's just a bunch of negativity-siding like the last ten or so posts in this thread. I don't need you to tell me I don't have a shot. That's indecent and you don't need to defend yourself because that'll just be more of the same.

 

Yes I simply restated your profile. But what I added is how each part of your profile might hurt you when it comes to PhD application. If you don’t wanna accept that, it’s fine. I have no dog in this fight.

 

I understand everyone wanna shoot for the stars, but I think, based on experience being in this forum for a while, that people can only help you if you’re realistic about your chances. Trust me, when I was a junior in college, I was so confident in my own ability that I thought I would end up going to NWU and work with Mortensen (may he rest in peace). And my academic record was much better than yours right now, but that’s not to say you’re inferior in any way, shape, or form. However the more I read, the more I realized me going to NWU was not gonna happen, and so i adjusted my expectations and got a ton of help from the people in this forum (to be fair it was much more active back then than it is now)

 

I read many of your posts and I have to say your knowledge of PhD study and admission is extremely limited. Again, there’s nothing wrong with that. As I said I’ve been there myself. The people on this forum wanna help you, but if you don’t think our suggestions carry any weight, that’s fine too. You can do whatever you want, it’s your life. But I stick to my predictions above, and although I do hope you’ll come back here and show me I’m wrong, I think it’s not gonna happen. Good luck

[tutonic]

Just dropping in to validate his point about recalibrating expectations. Everyone that has gone through the forums have done it. I've done it, at least thrice whilst preparing my profile, in the 2-3 years I've been here. It's hard to not take things personally but that's just how it is. You can take a gander at past profiles and results, to gauge your relative competitiveness. That's the biggest eye-opener, in my opinion.

[dogbones]

Just so everyone understands what my expectations are, I have "ideal" schools, "on par" schools, and "good bet" schools. I mentioned Harvard and MIT in my background because I was asked more about my goals. So why would I think or say that my goals are to get into some program somewhere in the US with free tuition & a stipend? That's not what I was asked to my understanding, nor would it do much for me. And when you say that I have limited knowledge of PhD study and admission, what are your main thoughts? Didn't I write that I've already been accepted into a PhD program in Economics 5 years ago?

[applicant12]

Just so everyone understands what my expectations are, I have "ideal" schools, "on par" schools, and "good bet" schools. I mentioned Harvard and MIT in my background because I was asked more about my goals. So why would I think or say that my goals are to get into some program somewhere in the US with free tuition & a stipend? That's not what I was asked to my understanding, nor would it do much for me. And when you say that I have limited knowledge of PhD study and admission, what are your main thoughts? Didn't I write that I've already been accepted into a PhD program in Economics 5 years ago?

 

If I understood you correctly, yes you were admitted but without funding. To a great majority of PhD hopefuls, that's equivalent to not being admitted at all. In the interest of full disclosure, when I applied to PhD programs the first time, my only admission was from BU with no 1st yr funding and full funding years 2-5. I think at the time most people on here suggested that I retry the following year, which I did. So I didn't give any serious thought to you saying you were admitted to UH Manoa.

 

And it's great that you have a list of schools in mind. I would suggest you post your profile in a easy-to-read form (just look at other profile evaluation threads). While you do that, note your weaknesses and ask people how you can address them. Our responses won't be perfect, but hopefully they'll give you a good roadmap of what to do next.

 

When I say you have limited knowledge of PhD study, I was saying you don't understand what PhD study is about. As tm_member said (and again in the interest of full disclosure, I have always admired him/her for his/her wisdom regarding PhD-admission-related stuff on this forum), either an MBA or a PhD would be useless for you. I was also alluding to the fact that you don't seem to appreciate how competitive this whole process is (I could be wrong on this, but that was my impression from reading your posts).

[startz]

Hi Dogbones,

 

Let me suggest two things that might be helpful.

 

1. You have much more information about yourself than anyone here knows.

 

This means that some of the advice here is based on missing information. Disagreements between what people tell you and what you know don’t indicate malice. Just different information sets.

 

2. Admissions committees are going to have much less information about you than what you know,

 

This is an argument for posting one of the standard profiles here. Actually writing out the standard stuff is a good exercise in seeing what info an admissions committee will use. (Not a perfect exercise.) This may help you figure out what nonstandard information you’re going to need to find away to communicate in your application. (Letters of recommendation can help with this.)

[tm_member]

Didn't I write that I've already been accepted into a PhD program in Economics 5 years ago?

 

An MA with fantastic grades will boost your chances of getting a similarly-ranked PhD admission, perhaps even with funding.

 

An MBA will have the opposite effect.

 

If you want to do it for kicks and curiosity (god only knows why: MBAs are known as "cash cows" and econ faculty tend to loathe having to teach MBA classes), then just do it and say as little as possible about it on your admission. Just include the transcript and do not highlight it.

[dogbones]

Now I'm starting to reconsider the MBA, because it was going to take away most of the free time I would have with pursuing just one degree. If not an MBA, what else can I do other than the MA in Econ to boost my application and odds??